Ep. 78: How to Take Control of Your Own Fitness with Leansquad’s Phil Mackenzie

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Former professional rugby player Phil Mackenzie is working out less than he ever has—yet he feels like he’s in the best shape of his life. What’s going on? Host Shaun Francis investigates with a feature interview that finds Phil fresh off covering Olympic rugby sevens for the CBC. But what Phil’s best known for lately is Leansquad, the online fitness business that has made him one of the most-followed Canadians working in the online fitness space. Phil tells the story of his fascinating career, discusses how his thinking about exercise has evolved over time, provides tips to encourage everyone to become more lean and fit than they’ve ever been—and shares the secret that his 80-year-old grandfather uses to bust out three-minute planks. Don’t miss this episode—it’s one of the most inspiring conversations we’ve featured.

LINKS

Learn more about Phil Mackenzie’s Leansquad online here. 

You can also find Mackenzie on Instagram and YouTube. 

Check out this profile on Mackenzie at The Province. 

INSIGHTS 

As a young rugby pro, Mackenzie was consumed by the sport—it shaped every aspect of his life. But his perspective changed when he got a chance to play against New Zealand’s national team, the All Blacks, one of the world’s most successful sports organizations. The All Blacks encourage their athletes to foster outside interests, whether it be something like getting a pilot’s license or going to law school. This helps set up their lives once they leave the sport professionally, which, Mackenzie believes, boosts their play on the field and their mental health off of it. After coming to terms with the fact that Phil couldn’t—and shouldn’t—live and breathe rugby 24/7, he started performing at his best as an older athlete. “If I could rewrite the book when I was playing, certainly at a younger age, I’d still be dedicated in my training and playing, but I’d have something to give me that ‘off’ switch,” he says. “It’s something I think about quite a bit now.” [10:10]

Post-rugby, Mackenzie changed his approach to fitness. While playing professionally, he trained to the point of exhaustion, both mentally and physically. Instead of giving himself time to rest, he kept pushing himself harder. Now, he trains less—for just 30 minutes, five days a week—but at a much higher intensity to ensure he’s still getting the full benefit of his workouts. “I thought extremes were the only way to be successful,” he says. “And I quickly learned that isn’t the case.” Now? He’s in better shape than he’s ever been. [15:14]

For his half-hour workouts, Mackenzie follows a different theme each day, whether it’s a focus on cardio, a leg day or a total-body workout. This variety, he says, is key to his system. “It’s so important, mentally, to feel challenged,” he explains, adding that it also keeps workouts more exciting. “That’s where the rewards come from.” [22:52]

Mackenzie has also changed his approach to food. He intermittent fasts, so no breakfast in the morning, and still follows a healthy diet. But, when the mood strikes for a bag of chips, or his kids want pancakes for breakfast, he doesn’t despise himself either. “I call them ‘whoopsies,’—my version of a cheat meal. I just think it’s an easier term because, inherently, if you think you’re cheating … you think all your progress is lost, which is so far from the truth,” he says. “I know I’m going to get back on track. … If your fitness journey is making your life less enjoyable, you’re probably doing it wrong, right?” [26:21]

So what can you do if you want to follow Mackenzie’s example? First, he says, start slow—set a small goal, like starting with, say, five squats, and find motivation by building upon that. Secondly, try to forget about things like aesthetics or the number on the scale. “I just simply focus on the fact that if I do this workout, I’m going to be a happier person, I’m going to be more confident, I’m going to be healthier, I’m going to have more energy, I can be a better dad … the list goes on,” Mackenzie says. Prioritizing what truly matters goes a long way. And finally, don’t don’t put an expiry date on your goals—just keep working towards them no matter what. “Slowly work your way up there, and eventually you are going to get it if you stay consistent.” [29:39]

EPISODE 78: HOW TO TAKE CONTROL OF YOUR OWN FITNESS WITH LEANSQUAD’S PHIL MACKENZIE FINAL WEB TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Shulgan: Hello, Eat Move Think listeners and welcome to Episode 78. I'm Executive Producer Christopher Shulgan. We started the show with a YouTube clip from this episode's featured guest Phil Mackenzie, the former professional rugby player who played for the Canadian national team in two World Cups as well as in England's Premier League. Today, Phil is the dynamo behind Leansquad, the online fitness business that has made him one of the most influential Canadians working in the field of exercise and physical activity. Our host Shaun Francis is the CEO of Medcan, which runs a fast-growing fitness training business that is all about pairing highly-qualified trainers with the right clients to create individualized training plans. Similarly, Eat Move Think is all about optimal wellness. Shaun envisions the show as a mechanism to inspire people to make the lifestyle improvements required to live a long, healthy and active life.

[00:01:21.21]

Christopher Shulgan: Few people in the country are doing that more than Phil. And so just after he'd finished covering Tokyo Olympic rugby for the CBC, Phil sat down in his Georgian Bay cottage to talk with Shaun about his 80-year-old grandfather who has a six pack and can do a plank for three minutes, about his thriving fitness business, and most of all, about the tools and tips that will help anyone and everyone become more fit and healthy than they've ever been. Mackenzie says he's in the best shape of his life—and you can be too. Here's Shaun's conversation with Leansquad founder Phil Mackenzie.

[00:01:56.25]

Shaun Francis: Hi, it's Shaun Francis, CEO of Medcan and host of the Eat Move Think podcast. I'm delighted today to be speaking with Phil Mackenzie, elite fitness trainer with a huge social media following, and an elite rugby player who played both for Canada at two World Cups and in the Premier League as a professional player. We're super delighted to have Phil here fresh from commentating on the Canadian Olympic experience in Tokyo. Just want to talk to you about how you really have arrived here at this level, and how do you sustain it, and what you can share with our audience on ways to hopefully get a little bit to where you're at? Why don't we kick off and just talk to us a little bit about the Olympic experience, how you arrived there and how that went for you?

[00:02:44.08]

Phil Mackenzie: Yeah, well, thanks for having me, Shaun. The Olympics, it's been a crazy experience, to say the least because I think, you know, I was ultra competitive as kind of once I started playing rugby, you know, my dream was always to play at the highest level. At that time, the Olympics wasn't really something that was tangible because rugby simply wasn't in the Olympics. So I had my goals set on playing, you know, the highest league professionally over in England. I wanted to go to World Cups, and I managed to do that. And if Olympics had been an option, I'm certain that would have been on the list.

[00:03:15.09]

Phil Mackenzie: But in a funny roundabout way, I got to at least participate in the Olympic experience, I think, commentating on the sport of rugby. So it was really, really special, I think. I was part of the CBC team, and it's just amazing how passionate they are about what they do and how they showcase these athletes. I still have friends in the team, Nate Hirayama, he was actually one of the flag bearers for Canada. And I remember, you know, finding out on the day—he's one of my best friends, and I was emotional because it's just like, not only for him, he's been, you know, playing for 15 years right when we started playing together. But also rugby, you know, just to be front and stage and centre and picked. It was just a super, super special experience.

[00:03:58.20]

Shaun Francis: Yeah, it's strange it's taken so long for rugby to be in the Olympics.

[00:04:02.24]

Phil Mackenzie: Yeah. And I think it's probably a long time coming, long overdue. So the way it works right now, there's basically two different games, there's 15s, which is like what I played professionally. I started out as a sevens player for Canada. And that was kind of your way to work into the national team for 15s, and hopefully go and play professional.

[00:04:22.02]

Phil Mackenzie: But as time went on, the IOC, the Olympics, everyone started to recognize how much sevens can really bring to the table, and how it's so easy for anyone who doesn't know rugby to watch and enjoy. Because there's only seven players on the field, you don't have to know all the ins and outs of rugby to understand. There's big hits, some of the fastest athletes in the world play now. And it's easy to cross over as well. So if you look at, like, the States, they've got two players: Carlin Isles who had never ever picked up a rugby ball in his life. His dream was to go to the Olympics as a sprinter. He was, I think, top four in the US, so just missed out. Saw rugby sevens on TV, found a way to get in touch with the coach, and next thing you know, he literally won Player of the Year, and he’s a force to be reckoned with now, having never played rugby. So I think from that side of things there's so many incredible aspects of it that really, really make it an attractive sport for the IOC to put on that platform and grow and develop. And it's just exponential growth from this point on, I think.

[00:05:25.11]

Shaun Francis: Let's talk about your story here now. How did you get into rugby in the first place?

[00:05:31.18]

Phil Mackenzie: Well, I mean, by chance. My dream was to be a professional tennis player when I was about 11 years old, and then my friends one summer convinced me to come and try out for the rugby team when I was 12 or 13, and I just picked up the ball. I loved that it was a team sport, I think, like, you know, that's been a huge part of my career is that team element. I think it's huge, and something I wouldn't trade for the world. And I just instantly loved it. And from that point on, from picking up that first rugby ball, and then I was fortunate enough to get picked by the first team coach, so the grade 12 coach, to go on a tour when I was in grade 10 with all the grade 12s to South Africa, and that moment I stepped foot in South Africa, I was like, this is unbelievable. You can travel the world, meet all these different people, and it just completely opened my eyes as to how much this world really has to offer us.

[00:06:24.25]

Phil Mackenzie: So that was really when I was fully bought in. In grade 10, I knew it was what I wanted to do for the rest of my life, or as long as I could, I guess. And yeah, that's what kind of led me to where I am today, I guess.

[00:06:36.03]

Shaun Francis: So you basically joined at school and worked your way up the ladder.

[00:06:40.26]

Phil Mackenzie: Exactly. Yeah, I started at school.

[00:06:42.23]

Shaun Francis: What school was that?

[00:06:44.09]

Phil Mackenzie: I went to Appleby College.

[00:06:45.14]

Shaun Francis: Okay.

[00:06:46.19]

Phil Mackenzie: Yeah, grade eight when I started, and then I joined the local Oakville Crusaders club team. And then from there, I got picked from the Ontario team when I was a little bit older. And, you know, one thing led to another. I made the under-18 Canada team, under-19 World Cup team. And again, it was just like, it seemed like every year we were going to England. I mean, our under-19 World Cup was to Dubai. And that was like, oh my gosh, this is unbelievable again, how much this world has to offer and really, you know, just opened my eyes big time.

[00:07:18.01]

Shaun Francis: And as an aside, I went to Upper Canada.

[00:07:20.06]

Phil Mackenzie: Oh, no way!

[00:07:20.26]

Shaun Francis: Yeah. I'm a few years older than you, but did not play rugby. Played football, swam. But then I went to the US Naval Academy, I went to a military school in the US that had a rugby team, and just wanted to play sports. So I actually ended up on the rugby team in the US at my US university. So it's actually pretty well organized. Like, there's a whole division one league and national championships. And, you know, I think it produces some good athletes. And our university plays division one football, and a lot of the football players who weren't going to get the same starting time, or for other reasons, just, you know, enjoyed the game of rugby more ended up on our rugby team. So your story resonates with me, for sure. But I never carried on past university, sadly.

[00:08:10.21]

Phil Mackenzie: Well, you got to play. I think certainly in terms of, you know, camaraderie and just the way I think rugby carries itself as a sport, it's so different. You know, you can beat each other up but then you always have a beer, shake hands afterwards, and I think that's what again, I come back to. It just made the journey so much more enjoyable and rewarding, I think.

[00:08:31.10]

Shaun Francis: Yeah. Well, don't they say rugby's a hooligans' game played by gentlemen?

[00:08:36.27]

Phil Mackenzie: Exactly, yeah.

[00:08:38.09]

Shaun Francis: And soccer's the reverse?

[00:08:40.26]

Phil Mackenzie: Yeah, yeah. I think that sounds about right.

[00:08:43.20]

Shaun Francis: What was the experience like playing the All Blacks? I mean, they're reputationally maybe one of the best teams regardless of sport in the world. What was that like?

[00:08:55.01]

Phil Mackenzie: It was pretty mind blowing, I think, because to a man, they're no different. And in a lot of ways, I'd actually say they're smaller than us. So not certainly physically intimidating, but I think what they do better than anyone else on the planet like you said, regardless of the sport is their mental aptitude, the way they can perform at the highest level under the most extreme amounts of pressure, it's unbelievable to be able to do what they've done for so long and be at that level. And I just remember the way in which they can make decisions and execute under, like I said, extreme, extreme amounts of pressure, it's just something that will probably stick with me for the rest of my life. And I think, you know, if I certainly had any say in developing a sporting organization, I would be, you know, heading to New Zealand. I'd buy my ticket, and I would try and pick every single one of their brains, because I know they certainly do things that aren't as conventional.

[00:09:51.08]

Phil Mackenzie: You know, one of the things for example is I know a lot of hockey players in the NHL, and this was the exact same when I was younger is you're so hyper focused on hockey. Like, you live, breathe hockey, you come home, you talk about hockey, go to sleep, you wake up, you talk about hockey, and it's just hockey. Whereas the All Blacks—and this is so counterintuitive, they have a huge focus on making sure the players have something outside of rugby to focus on. So again, Richie McCaw, you know, that's arguably one of the best players to ever play, finished, has his pilot licence, has something to go after. One of the best centres to ever play, graduated from law school while he was playing from the All Blacks. You know, and I had this later on. I was doing school when I was playing in the Premiership at the end of my career. And it was just, you know, whether you appreciate it or not, sometimes it was a pain having to do schoolwork after rugby practice, but it just gives your mind that break and relief, I think mentally. And again, I don't know if that's exactly why they can flick the switch unlike any others, where maybe sometimes you have that switch on too long, but I just think what they can do, it's just incredible. It's probably the only way I can describe it.

[00:11:02.06]

Shaun Francis: Yeah. And that's really interesting, even from an athlete's perspective of that career transition, which is a whole other mental health issue. I mean, you've obviously done it yourself, right? And like you said, most athletes aren't necessarily trained for the end of their career, right? What are they going to do afterwards? And the owners don't really care about that, or maybe pay lip service to it, but really, all good things do come to an end. And all of a sudden, you go from being an elite athlete to really having to leap into a whole new life. And so it's great to hear the All Blacks actually take that pretty seriously, and you think I might even contribute to their mental game overall.

[00:11:40.24]

Phil Mackenzie: Again, you can be so hyper focused. And I was there too, you know? I remember we'd play in Paris, or wherever in the world, and I wouldn't want to leave my hotel room because I'm like, I don't want to use energy that I need for the game. And as I got older, I realized, like, going out for that walk, switching off from rugby, like, I played my best rugby as I got older.

[00:12:01.09]

Phil Mackenzie: If I could talk to any of these athletes, because again, you know, hockey or whatever sport you're playing, it does end, and if that cliff is just to the bottom of nowhere, like, where you're a top performer and you go to being so out of your comfort zone with nothing to be really, really passionate about, it's going to be a really, really tough battle mentally. And again, I think the two can coincide and benefit each other would be my opinion, you know? If I could kind of rewrite the book when I was playing, certainly at a younger age, I think I would still be as dedicated in my training and playing and all that kind of stuff, but I'd have something to give me that off switch.

[00:12:37.15]

Phil Mackenzie: Because if something doesn't go well for you mentally, it is exhausting, you know? I remember I would stew over games or one play for days and days and days, and probably waste, you know, so much more energy, had I had that break mentally and could have just got back on track the next day. So it's definitely something I think about quite a bit now.

[00:12:57.23]

Shaun Francis: That's interesting, because I've done a lot of work with military veterans, and I've always thought it's analogous because they go from serving in a sort of an elite, highly-spirited team, and then one day, they take the uniform off and that adrenaline, that camaraderie is completely gone. And it's especially worse if you've been injured, mentally or physically. And the military, you know, frankly, doesn't train you for life after the military. It's not in their interest. They want to keep you in the military. So there's some huge mental health issues. But sports actually, is one of the ways to get people back on track. And I brought the Invictus Games to Canada back in 2017, which has been a huge boost for our injured soldiers globally. The Paralympics were actually created for injured soldiers after the Second World War, and now have been largely civilianized, which is why Prince Harry conceived the Invictus Games, because your new guy coming out of the forces, whatever country that might be, injured, isn't going to be an elite Paralympian, so they have no chance of competing at that level. So we've recreated it really with the Invictus Games.

[00:14:10.03]

Phil Mackenzie: That's amazing, yeah. I knew Prince Harry was involved in that, but I didn't know that backstory in terms of, like, the Paralympics. But that's interesting.

[00:14:19.21]

Shaun Francis: Phil, talk to us a little bit about fitness. You talked a bit about the transition of the older you got, the better you played, and it sounds like you were wiser, and maybe didn't keep yourself locked up in the hotel room. What level of fitness did you need to compete at the world level, and did your view of fitness or your focus on it change over time or through your career?

[00:14:41.16]

Phil Mackenzie: My approach to fitness has changed, you know, I would say almost every single year from the moment I started playing. And like I said, I went through that period where I was so hyper focused, I was the biggest over-trainer and, you know, that led to a middle part of my career where I was, like, severely injured, playing, exhausted mentally. You know, my mental health would probably be at its worst. And I was just trying to push through. I thought, you know, the old mantra: more squats, more push ups, you know, more sprints is going to lead to better results. And, you know, that's something I've learned over time simply is not the case.

[00:15:15.04]

Phil Mackenzie: Fast forward now, I train less than I ever have, but at a higher intensity. And I'd be pretty close physically to be able to get to where I was at these biggest peak events, you know, in my prime. At least, that's how I feel. And I think it's all about that approach. I think it's so easy to get caught up in that excessiveness, you know, extremes. Again, you know, I just thought extremes were the only way to be successful, and I quickly learned that that isn't the case. You know, now I take two rest days no matter what, where I focus on 15 minutes of stretching and mobility. Not only does my body feel 10 times better, but also mentally, I think. You know, that stretching, flexibility, all these things. And then obviously, food is something. You know, when I was younger, it was frozen pizza, it was kimchi noodles, Domino's pizzas. It was a lot of pizza, to say the least. And I could get by. I guess, you know, I don't know exactly why I could get by, but certainly I would nap way longer than I do now, I would have less energy than I do now.

[00:16:16.15]

Phil Mackenzie: And I know undoubtedly a huge portion out is because of the food I eat. And, you know, now again, I've fine tweaked my food, I intermittent fast, give my body that break from always consuming food. Like I would wake up and, you know, sometimes it could be like a whole chicken I would eat. It would be like a bizarre, bizarre way of eating and fuelling my body, but I just felt like I'd have to always always eat. And I remember, you know, one story in particular, going for a sevens fitness test, and you had to get this X benchmark, and I think it was 2,400 metres. You had to run around as fast as you could. And I ate, I kid you not, like, the biggest pot of pasta because I'm like, you know, I need as much energy as I could. Ate it about an hour and a half before, but little did I know your body has to expend all of that energy breaking down that food, and I didn't even come close even though I was at the time one of the fittest, didn't even come close to hitting the benchmark. Had to rerun it.

[00:17:10.14]

Phil Mackenzie: And, you know, that was just an example along my journey, a lesson learned so to speak of again, you see these bodybuilders and everyone just eating all the time, and I don't think that is where we should be in kind of our approach to food. So that's certainly changed. And I feel a million times better because of it. And I get asked all the time, do you have drinks? Do you have, like, cheat meals? I call them "whoopsies" because I think those are part of life. It's just, you know, always judging that balance and reward versus how's it going to impact you mentally and physically?

[00:17:42.08]

Shaun Francis: Was there an aha moment? Like, did you start doing this when you were a professional player in the Premier League? Or it sounds like even now you've been tweaking?

[00:17:52.00]

Phil Mackenzie: Yeah, I think I'm always, like—and I say this with exercise too, you know, what works for me might not necessarily work for you. So I'm always trying to get tidbits, and I think what's amazing now about social media and the internet is there's a lot of people who have some valuable insights. So I try and pick and tweak and test and measure and give everything a chance, a fair shot. Like, I've tried, you know, all the crazy diets, keto, vegan, I've done them all to see. You know, I'm interested, and then I keep coming back to that balance.

[00:18:25.18]

Phil Mackenzie: But I think it's going to continue to be a work in progress. But I think that's also exciting in trying to really maximize the one shot of life we get. And I think a lot of people realize probably when it's a little too late that that is the case. You only have one chance to kind of write your book, write your story. And if you wait until it's too late, it's not gonna probably have the ending you want.

[00:18:50.09]

Shaun Francis: Talk to me about your cardio training and your resistance training. Has it always—has that evolved over time as well?

[00:18:58.12]

Phil Mackenzie: Massively. I would definitely have a body weight component to my training, but I thought I had to do, you know, extremely heavy squats, I had to do bench press, you know, all of these standard lifts, like, that we would do for rugby. And then the pandemic hit, and we had twins right as the pandemic started. So we were at home, no gym, no weights, and I just committed to doing 30 minutes of body weight exercise, high intensity, five times a week. And I haven't stepped on a scale, but I don't think I've lost a pound of muscle mass. I feel better than ever before. Now I incorporate some of the high intensity training with dumbbells, just dumbbells. You know, I haven't lifted anything heavier than 40 pounds in two years.

[00:19:42.12]

Phil Mackenzie: I feel fit, I feel strong. I haven't lost that muscle mass. So I think everything with training now, I've kind of learned is, like, about intensity and how you're going to use your time, because if you go into a gym like I was doing, I would go in for an hour and a half and I wouldn't be efficient, you know, I would talk, I would hang out, I would take breaks, I would look at my phone. Whereas now, 30 minutes, there is barely time to catch a sip of water. And everything is pushing that weight, that tempo, that volume, that intensity, elevating that heart rate, and really getting uncomfortable in the time that I'm in that workout period. So that's how I approach it certainly now, and I try and look at everything. Again, the volume, intensity, and really just make the most of a short period of time and maximize those results.

[00:20:28.10]

Shaun Francis: You said something interesting. You haven't lifted a weight over 40 pounds in two years? Is that on purpose?

[00:20:33.21]

Phil Mackenzie: Well, I mean, it wasn't by design at first. Like I said, I had the gym and, you know, COVID hit, and I didn't step back in. We had the newborn twins, and then it was like all hands on deck. So at first, I think for four months, I did not touch a single weight, and I was doing five 30-minute workouts, and that's what really started my challenges. And then as everyone started doing those challenges, the real reason why I introduced weights is just more variety. I didn't think we needed them, but I always think it's really good. Like if you ever do one of my workouts, I always change it up. Like I'm not a big believer in doing the same thing over and over again. And I think largely because your body adapts, and secondly mentally it's just not enjoyable. I think, you know, you get excited—I used to when we got a new exercise, a new challenge. I still have all the muscle mass I had prior to COVID, which has been really incredible to see, I think. And I've seen so many individual squaddies build lean muscle, really transform their body composition and feel good mentally.

[00:21:35.28]

Shaun Francis: Are you doing cardio on top of that 30 minute? Or is it your workout solely that 30 minutes once a day?

[00:21:42.18]

Phil Mackenzie: Solely that 30-minute block five times a week. And then I usually add, like, a seven minute optional, slower tempo, dumbbell finisher, I call that. But each day has a specific goal. So for example, like Monday—they all have weird names, but lean ignition. And so that's really igniting metabolism, that'll be a higher tempo with cardio, but also we still focus, you know, we might have some chest press on the floor while your heart rate's really, really elevated. Back flies, whatever the case is, core, we really incorporate it all.

[00:22:14.22]

Phil Mackenzie: And then Tuesdays are lower body, like legs and glutes generally. And then Wednesday rest day, stretching, mobility, 15 minutes. Thursday is core and abs. So again, that'll have, like, that high-tempo component for a little cardio base, because that's really, really important, but also some of those traditional core exercises, I would say. And then Friday, definitely the lowest tempo, but again, you're always going to see your heart rate elevate to a degree, upper body, and then Saturday leansanity, I call it. That's total body. So we'll go in seven-minute blocks, each with a different objective. And then Sunday recovery is how I kind of structure my week for the last two years, basically.

[00:22:54.03]

Phil Mackenzie: And I also think it's so important mentally to feel challenged. I think so many people fear being challenged, you know, they don't want that feeling of challenge. And for me, that's where the rewards come from. If you're really proud of something in your life, I guarantee you it was hard to obtain, it was a difficult time in your life to get to where you're at.

[00:23:15.04]

Shaun Francis: You mentioned that you feel like you could get yourself on this regime back to an elite level with not a huge amount of extra work. So like, could you go out and play a professional rugby match at the shape you're in right now?

[00:23:32.02]

Phil Mackenzie: I mean, look, I think I could tough it out. I think I could tough it out. I think I could take it. I don't know how my body would react the next day, because there's a lot of different movements. But honestly, I think, like, if push came to shove, I could do it. I know it certainly won't happen, but I think I definitely could make it happen.

[00:23:52.10]

Shaun Francis: Yeah, so you're basically saying you feel like in many ways, you're in the best shape of your life.

[00:23:56.04]

Phil Mackenzie: Yeah, I think so. And I think if you take into account mentally, physically, I would have to have to say I definitely am. And I take a lot of pride in that now because, you know, life is crazier than ever before. You know, in the past, like I said, my body was breaking down. Mentally I was stressed, anxious, you know, almost 24/7. And in turn, I would nap all day. Like, I would finish rugby training, I would go to bed, like, religiously for two hours to a point once I remember my granddad—the twins' great granddad—who was around 74 at the time, flew over to England. He's been a builder his whole life. And we bought a house, and he was renovating it. And one day he just pulled me aside. I came up from my nap while he was working on my house, so this is an embarrassing story. And he goes, "You know, I don't know how you do it." And I said, "What do you mean?" And he goes, "How you nap." And I go, "Oh, it's amazing! You know, it just makes me feel so much better." And he looked at me and he goes, "I literally can't think of anything worse in life than missing out on life." And he's like, "I dread going to sleep."

[00:25:02.27]

Phil Mackenzie: That certainly was 100 percent a moment that changed me, because from that moment on, you could count on two hands how many times I've napped. And again, we've had the twins in a pandemic, a toddler at home, throwing, you know, my heart and soul into our business. And I feel like I have so much more energy because from that moment on after my granddad said that, two things I would say happened is one, I changed my perspective on life, because I look into my granddad's eyes, and I see he knows you only get one shot at life, right? And I think that so many people—myself included—don't appreciate. You think, "Oh, I'll do it tomorrow," but tomorrow's not guaranteed, you know? And when you appreciate that tomorrow's not guaranteed, you make so much more of your time that you have right now on this life, and you focus on all the things that matter. So after he said that I started, you know, making all these changes that needed to be making change, like my food, my recovery, my excessive training. I started to scale back.

[00:26:02.16]

Shaun Francis: So it sounds like there was a mental moment that really triggered sort of a mental perspective change on napping, in particular, but it sounds like your diet also contributed to it as well. Are you doing any snacking in your eating window, or desserts?

[00:26:21.19]

Shaun Francis: Yeah, so I mean, I'm not, like, personally a huge dessert guy. I call them, like, "whoopsies." So my whoopsie is like a version of a cheat meal. I just think it's like an easier term mentally, because I think inherently if you think you're cheating, a lot of people will have that one bad meal and they think all their progress is lost, which to me is, like, so far from the truth. You know, generally, I'm more like savoury so, like, chips will be, like, a big thing, you know, Pringles or anything like that, like, even I go back to the bad old days where kimchi noodles I love, ramen noodles, like, all that kind of stuff. And they'll just, like, sporadically happen. If my wife and I are feeling like something, you know, takeout or whatever the case is, it's no sweat off our back because I know what is going to happen. I'm going to get back on track, like, without a doubt. No matter how bad I feel, no matter what's happened or what hasn't happened, I know the importance of getting back on track, and it just, you know, completely resets you.

[00:27:22.22]

Shaun Francis: Talk to me for a moment about your grandfather. I saw—I think it's your grandfather, a picture, he looks pretty amazing. Did he have the epiphany you had? Or is he—or are you just genetically gifted as well?

[00:27:32.18]

Phil Mackenzie: No, you know, I think in sports, genetics are always gonna play a role, but I think work ethic and commitment and willingness to do it are far greater than genetics. And my granddad, he grew up in a really, really harsh part of England, you know, post-war, started working when he was 14, labour job. He was a roofer, or is still a roofer. And, you know, speaking on his behalf since such a young age, he has always, always appreciated the ability to move and be healthy and be strong.

[00:28:06.23]

Phil Mackenzie: And now I look at him, and he's 80 years old. And he can do things, you know, a lot of 30 year olds can't right? And it's because he has made it a part of his life. You should see his workout routine now. I mean, his hands, he fell off a three-storey roof, almost shattered every bone in his body, his hands are very, very—they don't function very well, let's put it that way. But yet he still finds a way. He's got these little handles, he does 600 push ups now three times a week, and blocks, 25 blocks. And then I got him on a lower body routine to strengthen and keep his legs up. And he sticks with it, he gets it done. Even after days he works. And, you know, it's just like a huge inspiration because I look at him and I'm like, "Man, that is what a great granddad can be like," you know what I mean? He can still run, pick up both the twins, exercise, you know, climb up a ladder, do all these things that I think, again, a lot of people take for granted. And, if you're 80 years old, and it's hard to get off a chair, life is a whole lot less appealing. You know what I mean? I think the goal—we're all talking about living longer, but you want to live a better quality, longer life, I think, you know? And that's certainly my approach now is like, "How can I get to 80 looking and feeling the way my granddad feels?" Because that is a whole, you know, other area of life. He's getting so much more out of life than most of us.

[00:29:31.07]

Shaun Francis: Phil, can you just give us, in wrapping up, three tips for healthy living that our listeners can action?

[00:29:40.02]

Phil Mackenzie: Yeah, I certainly can. I think my number one tip would be to start slow. I think so many people think you need to climb the mountain in one day. The reality is, wherever you are at is wherever you are at. And your mission should just be to build off that. So whether that literally means starting with a quarter squat, you know, as your first workout, that's going to give you something to build on. Don't think you have to do all these crazy things you're going to see on Instagram. Down the road, certainly one day, I'm sure with hard work, commitment, you're going to get there. But if you go all for nothing, one you're going to probably hurt yourself, two, you're going to feel unmotivated, because your thing is going to be so unattainable. So just start small. Set that goal out. What does day one look like? Build off that, use that as your motivation.

[00:30:26.20]

Phil Mackenzie: Number two, put aside all of the things that really don't mean much. You know, those six pack abs, and focus on the things that are actually going to make a difference in your life, and use that as your motivation. I don't focus on the scale, I don't focus on aesthetics, I just simply focus on the fact that if I do this workout, I'm going to be a happier person, I'm going to be more confident, I'm going to be healthier, I'm going to have more energy, I can be a better Dad, I can be better husband, I can work more, I can be more productive. The list goes literally on, but these are the things I focus on, and each one of us will have a different one. Is it confidence? Is it your energy levels? Is it you just feel proud about yourself? So really, really focus on those things. And lastly, don't put a date on it, just focus on the journey. I think, again, come back to that mountain. You don't have to climb it in 30 days, 90 days, 120 days, you just have to slowly work your way up there, and eventually you are going to get up there if you stay consistent.

[00:31:23.07]

Shaun Francis: Phil, I want to thank you for being with us today. For our listeners, you can find Phil online at lean-squad.com, or @leansquad. He really lives the Eat Move Think, and is an inspiration for me. And love to know that I can have a couple rest days, and your workout can be accomplished in 30 minutes, which is also motivating because so many people eliminate the thought of working out because they say they don't have time. So that's really great to hear that you feel you're still at the—you know, really maybe even in the best shape ever with that kind of routine. So thanks so much for sharing that with us today, Phil.

[00:32:03.22]

Phil Mackenzie: Thanks for having me, Shaun. I really appreciate it.

[00:32:14.29]

Christopher Shulgan: That was Medcan CEO Shaun Francis in conversation with Phil Mackenzie, former professional rugby player and founder of the online fitness platform Leansquad. We'll post a link to the program at EatMoveThinkpodcast.com, as well as insights and a full episode transcript.

[00:32:31.16]

Christopher Shulgan: Eat Move Think is produced by Ghost Bureau. I'm executive producer Christopher Shulgan. Senior producer is Russell Gragg. Patricia Karounos is associate producer. Social media and strategy support from Chantel Guertin, Andrew Imecs and Campbell MacKinnon.

[00:32:47.11]

Christopher Shulgan: Remember to rate and subscribe to Eat Move Think on your favourite podcast platform. Follow our host Shaun Francis on Twitter and Instagram @ShaunCFrancis—that's Shaun with a U—and Medcan @Medcanlivewell. We'll be back soon with a new episode examining the latest in health and wellness.

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