Ep. 83: How to Build a High-Performance Team with Scott Kress

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Humans are social creatures. Our wellness as individuals depends on the extent we feel like we belong in community settings at work, when socializing, and at home. But how can today’s leaders encourage strong ties among coworkers when so many are working virtually? Host Shaun Francis, the CEO of Medcan, explores the challenge of creating strong social bonds with climbing expedition leader Scott Kress of Summit Team Building (pictured above), who has climbed the Seven Summits (the tallest mountains on each of the seven continents) and who provides team-building advice to corporations of all kinds. After this episode, you’ll be better equipped to encourage social cohesion whether you’re scaling Mt. Everest or hopping on your morning Zoom conference.

LINKS 

  • Scott’s series on the future of team building is here. Don’t miss Part 2, Part 3 and Part 4.

  • You can find Scott on LinkedIn and his company, Summit Team Building, on Twitter. His blog features posts about his expeditions and team-building philosophy. You can also find clips of his talks here

  • Learn more about Scott’s adventures and team-building in his book, Learning in Thin Air.

  • Watch this quick video to learn more about Outward Bound & its mission.

  • Check out this Forbes article on a recent research study on the proven benefits of team-building and strong leadership. 

  • Want to read more about Scott’s 2008 Everest expedition? Here’s an article from the Burlington Times about his journey.

  • Read this CNBC article by David Novak to learn more about Tom Brady’s leadership style. 

INSIGHTS 

1: The task of team building has changed in the last 18 months. Coworkers are working virtually, which means they can be physically distant, and have often never met in person. Consequently it can be more difficult to create the strong emotional ties required to build high-performance teams. And that connection is important. Kress says connection among coworkers determines how productive they’ll be together. "There’s no need to be best friends with everyone at the office, but there is a need to have a relationship where you can know and understand each other.” That said, virtual team building can be effective. “There are benefits to virtual,” Kress says. “Certain types of content for training and team-building works really well, because you can have that, you know, short, 90 minute hit on a fairly regular basis…. But I believe that should be interspersed with some in-person training.” [07:29]

2: A high-performance team is set apart because they can consistently achieve their goals in difficult circumstance. "We've all seen teams that have achieved their goal, but they almost killed each other in the process,” says Scott. “Sometimes we get lucky.  Sometimes you persevere, you tough through it, and you get there. But generally… once you achieve your goal, the team falls apart.” Strong leadership and resilient emotional connections can help a team to find its common goals, allow its members to connect with one another and in turn, strengthen its ability to reach its goals every time. “If you want to go fast, go alone,” Kress says, quoting a proverb. “If you want to go far, go as a team.”  [15:48]

3: “A leader has huge influence over the culture of their team,” says Scott. Every subculture within a company is a reflection of that team’s leadership. It’s been proven that the members of a team take on the values, beliefs and priorities of their leader, and so it is essential that the leader takes responsibility for the way the team communicates and functions. “You want to have a very clear vision…You can't expect anybody to live up to expectations unless they know what those expectations are,” he says. "So you need to have a clear understanding of what it is you want to create, and then how are you going to share that with your team.” [20:38]

4: High-performing individuals don’t necessarily make great leaders. “Often we get promoted into leadership roles because of individual performance,” says Scott. However, not everyone is cut out to be a leader, even if they’re great at what they do. "And if we are going to be put into a [leadership] role, then maybe we need to have some training and some coaching to help us really understand what is the difference between being a high performance individual and being a successful leader.” [23:32]

5: So what does make a great leader? The title’s got nothing to do with it, according to Scott. "Leadership is about an attitude. Leadership is about action….if you see yourself as a leader, you're going to do things differently than if you see yourself as a follower.” While a follower listens to instructions and waits for direction, a leader is proactive. "They're looking for things that need to be done…they’re looking for people that need support and help.” Want to build a strong team? Build a team of leaders, Kress says. [25:55]

6: Kress has three tips for leaders looking to create high-performing teams in hybrid work environments. The first is the importance of vision—“your vision as far as what are your achievements... your goals, all of that stuff.” In the remote work environment, Kress suggests considering, “what's the vision of who we're going to be as a team? And then how are you going to communicate that to the team?” Second, Kress underscores the importance of leaders doing more than walking the talk. “I need to take what I want the team to do, and, and take that a little bit further.” Basically, Kress says, you have to run the talk. Finally, and particularly for teams working in hybrid work environments, leaders have to create real-world opportunities for social cohesion. “We're still seeing each other, we're talking back and forth on the computer, but it's not the same,” Kress says. “And that's where the team-building comes into play. You want to have those formal sessions led by, you know, those external professionals who are going to guide you through some type of a team-building experience. But you also want to have the informal as well: have dinner together, spend time talking together… You have to really focus on it or you're going to lose that team connection pretty quickly.” [29:01]

EP. 83: HOW TO BUILD A HIGH-PERFORMANCE TEAM WITH SCOTT KRESS

FINAL WEB TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Shulgan  0:09  

Welcome to Eat Move Think. One of the contradictions of virtual work is that it requires teams to collaborate when they're physically separated by geography. It's common today to work closely with people you've never met in person, and yet humans are social creatures. Solitary confinement is used by the penal system as a terrible punishment, precisely because community and real relationships with other physically proximate human beings are so important. They're key to human wellness. Humans don't fully live unless they're part of a team. So during a pandemic, how does one create a team? How do leaders promote a common cultural ethos that nourishes the human spirit? That's what we're going to be exploring in this episode. I'm Executive Producer Christopher Shulgan. Our guest, Scott Kress, runs a company called Summit Team Building that has worked for years with corporate clients. But Kress developed his philosophy on how to encourage teams to achieve peak performance as a mountaineer, a successful climber of the Seven Summit highest peaks on each continent. In this episode, he's interviewed by our host, Shaun Francis, the Medcan CEO who has accompanied Chris on expeditions. Here's their conversation.

Shaun Francis  1:32  

Hi, I'm Shaun Francis, CEO of Medcan and host of Eat Move Think podcast. And I'm delighted today to have Scott Kress with me who I've known for many, many years, Scott's an expert team builder and facilitator informed as well by his many years of outdoor expertise and expeditions. So we're super delighted to have Scott join us and talk about some old adventures and new ones. I know you're a student of it. So maybe just give us some history, how you got into it, and let's just talk about, you know, where's the science of team building going? 

Scott Kress  2:08  

Yes, it's kind of interesting. So many people get into their careers in very offhanded ways these days. I was in university doing a degree in biology and a degree in outdoor recreation, and I started to rock climb. Rock climbing really became a huge influence in my life, I became very strong and passionate, and everything got better. Because of that, I became a better student and it just put me on a trajectory in life. And that connected me with Outward Bound, and Outward Bound was all about doing these multi- week, monthlong wilderness expeditions. And when I got into the corporate team building side of it through Outward Bound, I found that I was good at it, I had an aptitude for it, I enjoyed it. And so I just started to do more and more of it. What we know about the origins of team building dates back to the late 1920s, early 1930s. And a researcher, Elton Mayo, was working with a manufacturing company, and their whole goal was about increasing production. And so they started to look at things such as lighting conditions, temperature controls, humidity, and they found that these things have a positive effect on productivity within the team. Then they started to put unified teams together, and they would all work on the same shift together, they started to get to know each other, they developed common goals together, they started to interact more with their manager, and their manager started to get to know them and they were building relationships. And they found that that started to have a positive influence on team productivity, and also, you know, employee satisfaction and all kinds of different things. And so that was kind of the foundation when they're like, "Oh, these things actually are good for business. These things are good for profitability." And companies started to recognize that and take a different approach to how they would put teams together and the resources they would provide to teams and that's kind of where team building began.

Shaun Francis  4:13  

And was it expertly facilitated back then? Or was it a learned practice by managers?

Scott Kress  4:18  

No, from what I understand, there were no team building companies of sorts at that point. It was, you know, managers trying to do things to increase productivity within their teams and probably didn't really start to see formal team building until, you know, World War Two, actually. The history goes Kurt Hahn, who was the founder of Outward Bound, he was involved in developing some training programs for the British military, they were finding that you know, when a ship was sunk by a U-boat, it was the, kind of the old, hardened sailors who seemed to be surviving being stuck in the cold water for hours and hours and hours, and it was the young, strong, healthy sailors who were perishing. And they started to determine that it was about some team experience, personal life experience and about mental and emotional strength and determination, resiliency. These were things that were helping those older, more experienced soldiers survive. And so Kurt Hahn put together a training program to help give these younger soldiers life experiences through team challenge and through hardship, and through stepping outside your comfort zone and so on. That was kind of the beginning of the formalized corporate team building, you know, after World War Two, and it's kind of evolved in many ways, since that point.

Shaun Francis  5:45  

Yes, I can see how the military might have inspired it and got at it, potentially just as a necessity. And that's now infiltrated the professional world. Are we in the golden era of team building now? Does it go through peaks and valleys?

Scott Kress  5:59  

You know, as you say, it's always, it's always changing. It's constantly changing. I've been in the business now for about 30 years. And there's been a lot of evolution, since I started when I first got involved with corporate experiential team building through Outward Bound. What we were doing, in many cases was taking these teams on three to five day expeditions, wilderness expeditions, canoe expeditions, hiking expeditions. And the theory being that if you provide people with this shared experience that is outside of a work context, it allows them to understand their personal strengths, their personal styles, how they interact with each other, it's about building relationship and trust and communication with each other. It's become more prescribed these days, you know, we're taking more content from more of an institutional setting, a classroom type setting, and integrating that into the team building, environment building and more models, tools, strategies, research, action plans, these types of things. Along with that is  the timing, you know, it is virtually impossible to get a corporate team to take three to five days off, to go do some team building. There's been this big evolution as the pace of business has increased dramatically over the last 20 years, you know, that constant email communication and text communications. People are just finding it overwhelming to be out of the office for too long. And then the pandemic, putting everything into a virtual environment, has changed it. So now instead of doing multi-day, you know, offsite sessions, we would be doing a series of 90 minutes, once a week, for several weeks in a row. We are starting to see the come back to in-person programs now. And it's really great for people to be getting back together, in-person again, and groups haven't met for 18 months. And there's been many new team members joined, they've never even met before in person. And so it's really important when you do get together, for the first time in 18 months in person, you're going to have some business content that you need to cover. But you also want to be focusing on culture, leadership, communication, trust, collaboration. Now, these are the things that are going to really help you to make it through any challenges and complexity that you've got in your way right now.

Shaun Francis  8:32  

So the virtual team building is no substitute for the in-person.

Scott Kress  8:37  

In my opinion, no, you know, I'm bit old school, perhaps. There are benefits to virtual. Certain types of content for training and team building works really well, because you can have that short, 90 minute hit on a fairly regular basis. You can get teams together that normally you would never get together, you've got people across the country or across the globe. So you've been able to expand the audience that you work with for training and team building. I think the virtual is here to stay, we will always be doing virtual training and team building from now forward. But I believe that should be interspersed with some in-person training. And that's also going to, you know, be reflected, you know, what is your work place look like? Are you a remote workplace? Are you an in-person workplace? Are you a hybrid workplace? All of those factors are going to contribute to what is the best design for your team building environment.

Shaun Francis  9:34  

I mean, I think you make a great point. The virtual world makes team building more accessible, but it may not be a substitute for the small team, in-person dynamic which can be created through some of your programs.

Scott Kress  9:48  

What I always say is that relationship is the foundation of any high performance team. We don't do things for each other because we have to, we do things for each other because we want to. We don't all have to be, you know, best friends, but we need to have a relationship. We need to know and understand each other. And we can do that in a virtual setting, but not to the same extent as you can do it in an in-person setting. So you work with what you've got, right. And now that we have this ability to do virtual meetings, trainings and team buildings, it's really adding to our repertoire of what we can do. But when you are able to, you are going to get a greater return on the in-person meetings, I believe.

Shaun Francis  10:37  

What are some of the fundamentals of good teams? 

Scott Kress  10:42  

Every team is going to be a little bit different. You know, one of the things that I talk about with many teams is developing your team vision. And I'm not talking about your corporate vision here, but this is your culture vision, your team/people vision. And every group is going to be a little bit different, and yes, there are commonalities like trust, support, collaboration, communication, but every group is going to have a little bit more emphasis on certain areas. And so to build a high performance team, it's a combination of understanding: what is the team looking to achieve? What are their challenges that they're facing? What are their goals? What is the makeup of the individual members of the team? What are their individual norms and values? And then how does that combine to build a team culture, something that everybody on the team can commit to, and agrees with, and is, you know, bought into. And then that will help them to have a roadmap. So, you know, you got to start with that basics of relationship. And then that will foster trust, which then allows you to communicate openly and honestly. If you're in a meeting, and you've got a high trust environment, everybody talks, they speak their mind, they share their opinions, they ask the questions. If you're in a low-trust environment in a meeting, everybody keeps quiet, because nobody wants to be that person who stands out. And so you have to have that trust in order to really foster that open communication environment. It begins right with, you know, vision, mission, values, goals, roles, responsibilities, right. Making sure that everybody understands those pieces, and then you can build from there.

Shaun Francis  12:31  

Talk to us about some real life situations. Maybe from some of your personal experiences, and maybe some corporate experiences where it's been good or bad.

Scott Kress  12:41  

You know, I can use my climb of Mount Everest as a great example. We were not the youngest team on the mountain, we were not the strongest team on the mountain, we were not the, the highest funded team on the mountain. And yet we were successful when so many other teams were not. It's very much an individualistic environment, where it's not a team in many cases, it's a bunch of individuals who have a personal goal. Whereas my team on Everest was very much a team. We spent time to get to know each other, talking about our vision, talking about our values, our team norms, talking about leadership. And so when crisis hit, when challenges hit, we were able to overcome them, when some teams who were just a collection of individuals were not able to overcome them. And so we were able to be ultimately successful, when many teams were not. So that, you know, was a very strong example, for me, of the power of team. And that allows you to do things that you couldn't do individually. You know, there's a great saying that says, "If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go as a team." Because the team can just support you and allow you to accomplish so much more. And then I've seen from a corporate perspective, there's been many organizations that I've worked with that have really integrated team building, teamwork, culture, values into who they are as a company, and they have a consistent focus on this. It's about connecting with people on a regular basis to reinforce what is important for this organization. What is your vision, what are your values? How do you work together? And that way, you're really building this sense of team, a sense of common commitment to a goal and culture. And so I found that the companies that really invest in the people and the culture side on a consistent basis are the ones that are, you know, doing really well, working well through bigger challenges. They've got high levels of employee satisfaction. They've got less turnover, work engagement studies are much higher, there's lower stress. So there's all kinds of benefits that companies who have invested in their people and invested in their teams, then, you know, they do get a lot of return on that. Does it cost time? Absolutely. Does it cost money? Absolutely. But what's the cost if you don't do it? That's what I always say. Generally, the cost of not focusing on team is much greater than the cost of investing in the team.

Shaun Francis  15:33  

Is there a way to, I guess, in the expedition world, for example, if you summit Everest as part of a team, maybe your team did a good job, right, but can you summit Everest and still have a bad team?

Scott Kress  15:45  

Yeah, you know, sometimes you get lucky, sometimes it happens. But you're not gonna be able to replicate it. We've all seen teams that have achieved their goal, but they almost killed each other in the process. They're not a high performance team because they can't do it again. High performance teams can do it time and time again. High performance teams do it in the good times, high performance teams do it in the bad times. So yeah, sure, sometimes we get lucky. Sometimes you to persevere, you tough through it and you get there. But generally, with those types of teams want to achieve your goal, the team falls apart.

Shaun Francis  16:22  

Can you, in a corporate environment, the quality of the teams, is there a way to objectively measure it? 

Scott Kress  16:28  

Well, you know, most companies are doing different types of surveys, as far as looking at satisfaction and gauging levels of trust and communication, you know, getting people's opinions. And you also just, you see it in the, the atmosphere, the environment of the workplace, and how people are interacting with each other, how people feel. There is that kind of empirical data side that you can look at, and then there's also just kind of that, you know, "I get a good feeling" side of it, as well. You know, some people will value the empirical research and numbers, and other people are going to value the feeling part. So you know, different people will come at it from slightly different angles.

Shaun Francis  17:14  

Scott, what would be one of the most existentially negative experiences that you've had in an expedition environment that could have negatively impacted the team? And perhaps did? And how did you handle it?

Scott Kress  17:30  

Early on in my career in mountaineering, and also in my career as a team builder, I was on an expedition to my first 8,000 meter peak, a mountain called Cho Oyu. There's only 14 mountains in the world that are taller than 8,000 meters. Eight thousand meters is what is referred to as the death zone. Very dramatic term, but it is exactly what it says. If you go into the death zone for too long, you will die. So I chose to go on an expedition with a group of, you know, high performance individuals. Every person had, you know, kind of been proven. They had the fitness, the technical training, the expertise, from a resume perspective, from an outside perspective, it looked like a really great group of people. Now, I'd never met any of these people, actually, none of us had ever met before. And we got to the mountain as a group of strangers, and we remained strangers. We didn't bond as a team, we didn't get to know each other. There were lots of different reasons why this happened. Primary one, we did have an expedition leader, who had actually been on that mountain before and knew the logistics, knew the route, these types of things. And he didn't believe that soft skills, team building stuff was of any value. If anything it got in the way. You know, when you bring emotions and relationship into tough, dangerous situations, it clouds your judgment. And so he, in many ways, didn't really let us get to know each other. He shut down conversations, he isolated people, he built silos. And basically the philosophy was: you're an expert at doing what you do. You just do it, you keep your mouth shut, you keep your head down, and we'll get to the top. And so ultimately, we didn't trust each other. We didn't support each other. There was ego involved, there was internal competition and conflict involved. And it was just a very, very dysfunctional team in a very, very dangerous environment. And nothing, you know, super dramatic happened as far as, you know, nobody, you know, was in a life threatening situation. But ultimately, we made it to our highest camp, and the team completely fell apart at that point. Out of five experts, five high performance individuals, not a single person made it to the top. And it had nothing to do with lack of skill or experience or bad weather. It was a lack of teamwork, a lack of support, communication and trust. And we haven't spoken since then, you know, that was not a team that could go on and continue to, to battle through different challenges. And so often, you know, what I say to teams is, "If all you want to do is get to high camp, yeah, maybe you don't need to be that great a team. But if you want to get to the summit, you need to be a high performance team." That's the difference.

Shaun Francis  20:35  

In this case, and I mean, it's fascinating, Scott. How much of this do you hang on the leader? It sounds like there's a breakdown of leadership too.

Scott Kress  20:42  

Yeah, you know, the thing about leadership is that leaders have a disproportionate influence over team culture. Every member of the team is going to contribute to team culture, but a leader has more influence. There have been various studies that have shown that teams will take on the values, the beliefs, the priorities of the leader, within one to five days of that relationship beginning. So me, as a team member, my priorities are my leader's priorities. My values are my leader's values. Within organizations, every department has a subculture, every team has a subculture. And that subculture is a reflection of the leadership of that team. We take on those styles, characteristics, personalities. And so a leader has got a huge influence over the culture of their team. And so when I'm coaching leaders, and they say, "You know what, my, my team is just, you know, a bunch of dysfunctional, selfish, egotistical people." And I'll often have to say, you know, what, to the leader, "You need to look in the mirror." Because they're doing what they see you do. They communicate with each other, the way in which you communicate with them, their priorities are your priority. So as a leader, you need to take responsibility, accountability, for the culture that your team has. It's not necessarily out of your control. Yeah, there are other influences that factor into it, for sure. But the individual leader has got a tremendous influence over the culture that develops within their team. So you want to have, as a leader, a very clear vision. What do you want your team to be like? What is high performance communication, high performance, change management, high performance, conflict resolution? I always say you can't expect anybody to live up to your expectations unless they know what those expectations are. So you need to have a clear understanding in your mind as leader, what it is you want to create, and then how are you going to share that with your team. So, you know, in my example of the dysfunction on the mountain, was every member of the team part of that and accountable for that? Absolutely. But it was a leader who put us on a path. And nobody stepped up to alter that. So you know, we're all we're all complicit in this. But the leader is the one who puts you on a path, and, and has a vision.

Shaun Francis  23:14  

And have you tracked, I mean, that particular unnamed person? Are they still in the expedition business?

Scott Kress  23:21  

We haven't kept in touch. And certainly through social media, and blogs and stuff like this, yeah, every now and then you pop in and see what other people are doing. And their track record was very similar, you know, in future expeditions. You know, this person was a very strong individual, very successful individual climber. And, and that's the thing is, you know, often we get promoted to leadership roles because of individual performance. And, you know, maybe we're not all destined for that role. And if we are going to be put into that role, then maybe we need to have some training, and some coaching to help us really understand what is the difference between being a high performance individual, and being a successful leader?

Shaun Francis  24:08  

You see it in sports teams all the time, right? The chemistry of the team, and the way that different players contribute is so critical.

Scott Kress  24:16  

Yeah, I think, you know, a pop culture example of that right now is that TV show, "Ted Lasso," which is very popular, you know, taking this, this coach who is more focused on the relationship amongst the players and the team building within the players. And then the performance comes out of that. Just because you put a bunch of talented players together doesn't mean you're gonna have a high performance team. There's a lot more to it. And often these All-Star teams are not always the best teams because they just, they haven't had the time to get to know each other and to understand each other and to develop that camaraderie and how they all work together.

Shaun Francis  24:58  

What do you think Tom Brady does when he joins a team? And that's pretty remarkable, I mean, you might have attributed his success to just being with the Patriots organization. But he goes to a new team and finds the same success. I guess, you know, he's clearly a leader. That obviously transforms the culture, somehow, of that team. Even though he isn't a coach.

Scott Kress  25:20  

I don't know a ton about Tom Brady's individual story, but you got to think, you know, certainly a high performance individual, somebody who people look up to, he's got a very strong work ethic. But then there's also going to be just who he is as a person and how he interacts with people and the values that he has, and what he draws out in people. You know, those are going to be the elements that he contributes to a team that is going to, to change that team culture. And, you know, and hopefully changing it for the better.

Shaun Francis  25:52  

I mean, that might be an example. For example, he's not the coach, right. So he's not the designated leader, per se. But he's an extremely influential, quote unquote, leader on the team, who changes the whole team dynamic.

Scott Kress  26:04  

Yeah. And that's the thing about leadership is, leadership is not solely about title. Leadership is about an attitude. Leadership is about action. And as you say, it's about influence. You know, one of the definitions of leadership is someone who has influence over others. And by that definition, we're all leaders, because we all influence each other. And my belief is that if you see yourself as a leader, you're going to do things differently than if you see yourself as a follower. Followers wait to be told what to do. They just kind of sit in the background, whereas leaders, regardless of what your actual title is, leaders are proactive. They're looking for things that need to be done, they're looking for things that need to be fixed, they're looking for people that need support and help. So ultimately, what you want to build on every team is a team of leaders. That's ultimately where you're going to get the best results. And when you have that group of people who are all committed and accountable and bought in and acting in a leadership philosophy, a leadership mindset.

Shaun Francis  27:11  

On the wellness side, can good or bad teams influence your health? It may be interesting to your mental health.


Scott Kress  27:20  

I'm not a doctor, or a health science researcher. But from my understandings, and just through practical experiences, right, if you're on a dysfunctional team that has conflict and stress and strife, then that's going to be very uncomfortable for the individual. Your commitment level is going to go down, your engagement level is going to go down, your satisfaction is going to go down, your performance is going to go down. A negative culture is going to have a negative impact on most individuals within the team. And the first opportunity they get to jump off that ship, they're probably going to take that opportunity. And, you know, conversely, when you are involved in a team that you really enjoy, you look forward to going to work with that group of people, you have high levels of satisfaction, engagement and performance. That is going to improve your immune system, it's going to give you a greater ability to ward off challenges and various different things, just because you've got more resilience. Everest is very much a physical task, you have to be physically fit to climb the mountain. But I always say that is your entry ticket to the door. Once you get there the difference between success and failure, it's mental, it's emotional. And so those high performance teams have got lots of mental and emotional resilience, so that when they hit the tough times, they can deal effectively with it. Those dysfunctional teams are running on fumes, they don't have a lot of resilience, mentally and emotionally left, so that when bad things happen, they tend to crack under the pressure. They can't handle it. So there is going to be, you know, health consequences, as well as performance consequences based on the culture of the team.

Shaun Francis  29:13  

What do you say to leaders today? What would be in three tips in trying to lead in this pandemic, hybrid environment?

Scott Kress  29:22  

Yeah, that's it. That's a tough one, because I think we're all still trying to learn. What is this hybrid environment going to look like? And what's the best way to lead? But ultimately, it comes down to making sure that people have a clear understanding of your vision. Your vision as far as, what are your achievements, your productivities, your goals, all of that stuff. But then also from the people side. You know, we're in a remote work environment right now. So what's the vision of who we're going to be as a team? And then, how are you going to communicate that to the team. And we always say, as leaders, you need to walk the talk. Right.? But I believe you need to be doing more than walking the talk. It's like you need to run the talk. Because if I want you to communicate in a certain way, and that's what I do, then my team member is going to do that, but a little bit less, probably. Because they're not, you know, it's not quite as important to them, they're not bought into it quite as much. So I need to take what I want the team to do, and, and take that a little bit further. You know, as leader, you have to be a, you know, a cheerleader of what it is you want to promote within the team. And, you know, in a virtual environment, we've lost that personal connection. Yeah, we're still seeing each other, we're talking back and forth on the computer, but it's not the same. So you want to build in times for your teams to interact in a social environment. Not just having virtual business meetings, where you're talking about business content, but also having some social opportunities where people can get to know each other, and build and connect. And that's where the team building comes into play. And you want to have those formal sessions led by, you know, those external professionals who are going to guide you through some type of team building experience. But you also want to have the informal as well. Have dinner together virtually, you know, spend time talking together, doing the cooking class virtually. You know, different things like that. So, you know, having the vision, running the talk, and then providing opportunities for people to connect, I think is really important in this virtual or hybrid work environment. So it's, it's really not a whole lot different than in person, it just, we have to be much more deliberate about it. Because there's so many more roadblocks in our way right now. So you do have to really focus on it, or you're going to lose that team connection pretty quickly.


Shaun Francis  31:54  

Is it harder to get energized, though, virtually? Like, do you find that in the in-person? I find, being in person, I can stay locked in and more energized.


Scott Kress  32:03  

Yeah, definitely. It's just harder to engage, it's hard to keep that energy level going in a virtual environment. And so you, you want to make sure that your content, your meetings, your team, building your presentations, whatever you're doing virtually, you’ve got to pump them up a notch, you know, to make sure that it has the energy level to keep people engaged. You have to do things a little bit differently virtually, then you might do it in person. And when you do have the opportunity to have those in-person meetings, you know, really value those. Don't squander them. You know, there's a lot of companies that are switching to one hundred percent work remote environment these days. And so they're planning on doing maybe, you know, once a quarter, we're going to get together in-person. And so those once a quarter meetings are going to be super important from a culture and a team perspective. And you need to be really deliberate in how you use that time to get the best benefit from it.


Shaun Francis  32:59  

I could not agree more. In fact, yeah, just yesterday, we had our first in-person meeting in probably a year. Sounds crazy.


Scott Kress  33:11  

Every day is changing, you know. People are booking meetings and then canceling them the next day. It's still a very uncertain time right now, but I think it is an important time to get back to those in-person meetings, and it is doable in a safe way. You know, we just have to be a little bit more conscious about how we're doing things and putting them together, but we can make in-person meetings happen right now. Generally smaller in size, but we can make them happen and get a lot of value from them.


Shaun Francis  33:37  

I want to thank you, Scott Kress, a testimony to the amazing work he's done. Not just with corporate teams, but also in the many expeditions that we've been involved with together, in particular for True Patriot Love, which of course supports our veterans and military families nationally. They've had some amazing, life-changing experiences off the battlefield by participating in these, these outdoor activities, which, like we discussed, are good for your heart and mind. So at any rate, Scott, thank you so much. And I look forward to seeing you soon in-person.


Scott Kress  34:18  

Yeah, thanks, Shaun. It was fun to have a chat and I'll talk to you next week.

Christopher Shulgan  34:27  

That was climber Scott Kress of Summit Team Building in conversation with our host, Medcan CEO Shaun Francis. We'll post links to more of Scott Kress's writing and speaking on team building, as well as a full episode transcript at EaEatMoveThinkPodcast.com

Eat Move Think is produced by Ghost Bureau. I'm executive producer Christopher Shulgan. Senior producer is Russell Gragg. Associate producer is Jasmine Rach. Social media and strategy support is from Chantel Guertin and Andrew Imecs. 

Remember to rate and subscribe to Eat Move Think on your favourite podcast platform. Follow our host, Shaun Francis, on Twitter and Instagram at @ShaunCFrancis—that's Shaun with a U—and Medcan at @Medcanlivewell. We'll be back soon with a new episode examining the latest in health and wellness.



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