Ep. 59: The Trouble with Teens with Erica Ehm

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The pandemic has affected mental wellness for everyone — and teenagers are having a particularly difficult time. Youth unemployment is up. Competitive sports are on hiatus. Adolescents are stuck in a cycle of solitude, screen time, social media and boredom — creating all sorts of mental health problems. Here, Dr. Jack Muskat, Medcan’s psychology team lead, talks with parenting expert and Toronto entrepreneur Erica Ehm about the problems facing teens — and how to help.

Links  

• Ehm is the founder of YMC.ca, a website dedicated to sharing the perspectives of Canadian women with kids. She also founded Ehm & Co, an award-winning digital agency with expertise in the Canadian mom social space. To learn more about Erica Ehm, visit her personal website.

• Connect with Erica on Twitter and LinkedIn, and on the YMC.ca Facebook group.
  In a blog post on YMC.ca, Erica discusses the profound shift in women’s roles brought on by the pandemic. She delves into how mothers have had to carry a heavy weight and take on multiple roles since the lockdown. 

• A story that illustrates how difficult the pandemic has been on teens: Number of youth in hospital after suicide attempt tripled over 4-month period under COVID-19

• Signs your child may need more support after the pandemic, from the American Academy of Pediatrics

• Medcan’s Child & Youth Assessment is designed to provide you and your family with tailored strategies to help your child reach their potential. You and your child will spend valuable time with a child psychologist, physician, exercise physiologist and dietitian to help you understand your child better. This assessment is also appropriate as a first step to explore specific health and wellness concerns. Learn more about Child & Youth Assessments at Medcan. 

• To book a therapy session with Dr. Jack Muskat or one of the psychologists on his team, go here.  

Insights

The pandemic has been tough for teens, as well as the parents of teens. Many moms and dads feel that their children have become uncommunicative, and hard to reach. Ehm agrees and provides some tips for what works for her. “One of the best pieces of advice I learned is to talk less, and listen,” Ehm says. Let’s say the parent asks the child, how are you feeling? Often, the child may not answer. But every once in a while, this geyser explodes. Once the child starts talking, validate their feelings, don’t try to solve their problems. “That must be so hard,” is a good response. “Wow, that must be so hard to deal with.” (6:00)

Many kids have responded to boredom by spending more time on social media, observes Dr. Muskat. He wonders how a social media expert like Ehm sets boundaries for her kids on apps like Instagram or Snapchat. “How do we figure out what the right rules are?” Ehm’s first advice is, don’t boss them around — because as soon as you say “get off”, they want to get on more. Number two, she says, keep in mind that we're in a pandemic. Pre-COVID, social life meant school encounters, park hangs, sports teams and parties. With much of that gone now, Ehm says, social media represents an important connection to peers. “So my concern about social media is a little lower these days.” Finally, Ehm encourages conversations with your children about what’s happening on social media. “Can you believe that so and so did this?” The idea is to maintain open channels of communication, to grow their critical thinking skills, and to encourage them to realize the power that social media has over them. (10:30)

Excellent spin on the parents’ job: “The number one job for parents,” Ehm says, “is to teach your kids to make the right choices when you're not around.” (13:35)

Dr. Muskat asks, any advice for parents whose children went into the pandemic immersed in a competitive sport, who now want to give it up? “They’re in a bit of a funk, sitting at home, and now the world is going to open up again but they’ve lost this interest in their sport.” “The pandemic has changed a lot of people,” Ehm says. It’s natural for a kid’s interest to change. So don’t force your kid to do a particular activity. Listen to them. Let them take the lead. A parent cannot force a child into any activity and expect it to be productive. (17:15)

The pandemic has not been all bad for the relationships between parents and children. Ehm and her team surveyed 700 moms across Canada about how things have gone in the pandemic. The survey turned up some silver linings. Almost 50% of moms said that they have better relationships with their teens, likely because their teens are not distracted by the lure of their friends. That said, the survey also turned up some troubling elements. Of the women who responded, only 7% describe their COVID state of mind as “doing well,” and 78% say their biggest struggle is worrying about their families’ mental and physical health. (22:40, 24:35)

The Trouble with Teens with Erica Ehm final web transcript

Christopher Shulgan: This is episode 59 of Eat Move Think, and I'm Christopher Shulgan, the show's executive producer. The pandemic has affected mental wellness for most any age range. And any parents of teens would be able to tell you that adolescents are having a particularly difficult time. Medcan has a child and youth wellness program that provides counselling to teenagers. What happens in those appointments is confidential between subject and psychologist, but in aggregate the therapists are hearing increased reports of anxiety, depression and all sorts of mental wellness issues.

Christopher Shulgan: Of course they are. For a year now, the teens are stuck in this weird, contradictory world where their friend time is limited, they're spending too much time on screens and social media and video games, and they have way too much time on their hands. Problems were inevitable.

Christopher Shulgan: In this week's episode, we get a refreshingly authentic and honest account of what's happening—along with pointers about what to do about it. We feature Medcan's psychology team lead, Dr. Jack Muskat, in conversation with the Toronto parenting expert and entrepreneur, Erica Ehm, mother of two children, ages 17 and 20. Depending on how old you are, you may know Erica Ehm from her time as a VJ on Much Music. More recently, she's better known as the founder of the parenting community, YMC.ca, and as a parenting expert on numerous different television shows and podcasts. So here we go, let's jump right into Dr. Jack Muskat's conversation with Erica Ehm.

Jack Muskat: Our episode today is really around the trouble with teens and how teens are managing through this pandemic, how we're all managing. And let's just get right into it. The first thing I'd like to ask you, Erica, is you are a mom to two older teens. You've got a 17-year-old daughter and a 20-year-old son. What's your experience been during this whole pandemic with them?

Erica Ehm: Interestingly enough, each of my kids is reacting in an entirely different way. My 17-year-old has sort of found her footing. The pandemic has been the best thing for her mental health. And for my son, it's been very isolating, and he's struggling. So two kids, both amazing kids, and the pandemic hitting them in very different ways.

Jack Muskat: Did you expect that reaction from each of them?

Erica Ehm: I did not expect my daughter to do well during the pandemic, during lockdown. She's very social. She gets her energy from people. Although she does suffer from social anxiety, she also gets energy from being around people. But there was a combination, because my daughter was already having mental health challenges before the lockdown, she's been in therapy for a year and a half. And I think that during the lockdown, because she continued to have therapy, she was able to internalize those learnings in the quiet of our home with fewer distractions and less FOMO.

Jack Muskat: Right.

Erica Ehm: Well my son, who is an introvert at heart, studying university from our shitty basement—excuse the language—doing photography. So you can only imagine what that's like in an artistic, collaborative art, that he no longer can collaborate with others and has to use a makeshift studio in our basement. He feels very isolated. He is lacking any kind of one on one and deep connection.

Jack Muskat: Was this his second year? Or was it first year for him?

Erica Ehm: Third year.

Jack Muskat: Third year. So he had at least the experience of first-year excitement, meeting friends. And now third year, as he's kind of gearing up for his conclusion, it's like you pull the stopper out. And he has no stimulation in a course that requires that kind of interaction, I suppose.

Erica Ehm: And there's another piece to it: he can't work. So his sense of purpose is disappearing. He's just feeling very hopeless. And I understand it. I understand his feelings. So it's funny how the one who was depressed is getting help. The one who isn't depressed is challenged.

Jack Muskat: Right. It's so counterintuitive, and it's so surprising because you would think that the pandemic would create more social isolation. But for many of us, and even for adults, it's been a reset, and you have a chance to look back. And for your daughter, it removed a lot of extraneous stimulation, allowed her to focus on the learnings that she's had. And probably given where she's at in her life, has been helping her boost up from maybe a deficit position. Whereas your son was motoring along, and now he's had to have things removed from his life. He's also probably looking ahead and thinking, "How do I network? How do I figure out what's going on? How do I make a life for myself when I can't reach anybody?" And that is tough.

Erica Ehm: One hundred percent. You nailed it. Yeah.

Jack Muskat: And so then the question after all of that, which then thank you for sharing that interesting background, because I think the other thing that is coming through which I think will be thematic for our discussion, Erica, is that, yes, they're called teens, but every child is different. And even if they're in the same family, you can't predict how they're going to react. And you have to act differently with each of them and be sensitive to where they're at. So how have you and your husband picked up on this and managed? Have you always had that ability to communicate with your kids? Because that's one of the underlying questions and concerns that many parents have during this pandemic period, is that their kids are uncommunicative, or that they really can't reach them.

Erica Ehm: One of the best pieces of advice I learned is to talk less and listen. Shut your mouth. "How are you feeling?" No answer. "Hmm, yeah." And just not say anything. And every once in a while this geyser explodes and they start talking. And validate. "That must be so hard." Not solve the problem, just listen and validate. Because anything they say is true because they feel it. "That must be so hard. That must be so hard. Wow. I can't even believe it. Wow. So hard." That's how you communicate.

Jack Muskat: Right. Now I know you also run Yummy Mummy Club. And so you have lots of moms and lots of information and experts and advice. From what you've just told us, can you share with us some other tips that would be helpful for parents of teens to better understand what other parents can do? Because I think one of the things that you said of course is not to say anything, just let them come to you, but there are probably other tips that you've heard from your listeners and your audience that would be helpful to share with our audience.

Erica Ehm: So I think to empower parents to know that if you feel like your kid is depressed, you don't have to look it up in a book. The first thing when you think your kid is depressed, it's because you know them really well. And if you're noticing a change in whoever that person is, that means that something is going on. So it's really, I think, know your kid and trust your gut, I guess, in how your kids are behaving. I think another one is to not be afraid to have difficult conversations, to be open. For example, in these times, when your kids might see you struggling because of the pandemic, to be open and to say, "Oh, yeah, it's a scary time. But I'm okay. I'm okay. We're gonna get through this together. How are you feeling?" And again, to validate their feelings, I think it's really important for parents to show that it is a challenging time. The pandemic is a time like we've never experienced before. And so our fears and our behaviours will be like they've never been before. So that's normal, isn't it? If the world changes, so do we. Have those conversations with your kids.

Jack Muskat: See, one of the one of the challenges is that we're all consumers of media, and we read and we hear that the anxiety and depression amongst teens, suicidal ideation is up 1,000 percent. Suicide attempts are up, eating disorders are up, kids are worried all the time. What are some of the things that we have to look for that aren't particularly obvious that your child may be suffering?

Erica Ehm: I think the most important thing for parents is, if you notice a big change in your teen that is troubling, is to reach out to a professional. I think that that would be my biggest advice. Because we as parents only know so much. And the brain is complicated, and these are complicated times. And I feel like if our teens are struggling, sometimes we need to go outside for help, and there's no shame in it. I think that's a really important thing. My daughter has been in therapy for years. And I'm a great mom. It doesn't mean that I'm not a great mom. In fact, my husband's a great dad. We've lived in the same house for 20 years. You know, it's not like that you can blame it on a broken home. Not that a broken home would cause a child to be upset or depressed. But what I'm saying is, my children live a very average life and yet they're struggling.

Jack Muskat: Given that you're a social media expert in so many ways, how do we figure out what the right rules are for the best balance for these kids?

Erica Ehm: So I think the first thing is to not boss them around. Because as soon as you say "Get off," they want to get on more. So don't make it something that is something that you want to fight over. Number two, keep in mind that we're in a pandemic. And in the old fashioned days—which would have been a year ago—their social life meant going to school, going and hanging out in the park, going on sports teams, they were going to parties. It's all gone right now. So I myself understand that it's a lifeline. So my concern about social media is a little lower these days, also because there's less stuff happening so there's less FOMO right now. There's no parties that the kids feel like they're missing out on, which is fantastic. I love it. The other thing that I think is really important is to have conversations all the time about social media. We do that with our kids. Like, "Can you believe that so and so did this?" Like, we talk about it. So they become, hopefully, critical thinkers so they can see the power that social media has over them.

Jack Muskat: Yes. Could you say more about that? Because that's a very important point. I'd like you to maybe even give a real example how we're manipulated. As adults, we know we're being played. But these kids don't always know that.

Erica Ehm: Adults don't even know. But there are things like these apps. For example, Snapchat, you want to have a streak. Which means that two people, every time you're sort of having a conversation or, like, texting back and forth using the app, and it becomes a streak. And so they kind of gamify this concept where you want to get as many—I'm not sure if it's streaks. I don't know if that's the word "streak," when there's a conversation back and forth. You don't want to lose your streaks. So what it does is it makes people come back and have more conversations on the app.

Jack Muskat: Right.

Erica Ehm: And then there's things that manipulate me all the time. For example, on my apps, when I see the little number or the little dot meaning, "Oh, my God. Someone is reaching out to me." And we know that there's chemicals released in our brain. I think it's dopamine, isn't it?

Jack Muskat: Yes.

Erica Ehm: When we have that fantastic—when someone pays attention to us and we're part of a conversation, it's sort of addictive. But I want to tell—or I do, we have, we continue to point that out to our kids, and then let them make the decision. Because you can't take their phones away. That doesn't solve anything. And especially teenagers, as soon as the pandemic is over—which will be soon, guaranteed—they're out. And they're going to have to make decisions when you're not around. In fact, when I was a brand-new mom, one mom told me—I think she was a mom—said to me, "The number one job for parents is to teach your kids to make the right choices when you're not around."

Jack Muskat: Excellent advice.

Erica Ehm: Yes. So with social media, we've been talking about it for years, and we sometimes tease my daughter that she's—like, she's addicted. She hates that. She hates the idea that we think or that even that she is a slave to her phone. And so just recently, for example, she gave her boyfriend all the passwords to all of her social apps and said, "I'm going off them for three weeks or a month," or whatever the number was. We went, "Why?" She goes, "I just want to." And that's because she wants to be in control. And the idea of it controlling her, now she just happens to be super amazing. I don't know if other kids would do it. She did it herself. It had nothing to do with us. But it's because—I guess her therapist also says to her, you know, "Who's in control? You or your phone?"

Jack Muskat: Yeah. And I think that's that teens want to feel that they're sort of—we all had that inner knowledge. I mean, we all grew up feeling a little bit, not so much oppositional, but the idea that if the adults hate what we're doing, it must be good. But if the adults are now showing us how in many ways we're being manipulated by some of that social media, we then want to say we want to be in charge of it. And so then they feel empowered. And by feeling empowered, they don't feel so overwhelmed by it. And I would also probably assume that you and your husband are also role modelling good ...

Erica Ehm: No.

Jack Muskat: No? You're not?

Erica Ehm: [laughs] No, we're not. Let's be honest, we both are on our phones. I'm being very honest with you. Although, for example, when we sit down for supper, no one is allowed on their phones. And the phone rings, and my husband's hand is shaking and he's moving towards the phone. And we all look at him and we go, "Do not do it."

Jack Muskat: Do you take the devices to bed? Or do you turn them off before you go to bed?

Erica Ehm: My daughter now takes hers to bed. And I don't say anything. It's what you were saying. It's like, if she needs it, she could do it. Here's one thing, though, that I would say, that the challenge that you have to put forth to your kids is you can be on social media, as long as you're eating normally or healthfully, as long as it's not interfering with your sleep, and as long as you get outside and do some form of exercise or get fresh air, and do your schoolwork. If any of those things are not met, that means that you're not able to balance the two. So it's not "I'm going to take your phone away," it's "We together are going to make a plan on when you should be using your phone in order to get all those other things done."

Jack Muskat: Right.

Erica Ehm: So it's not a punishment, it's a plan. Because they're not yet able to manage the most important things of their lives.

Jack Muskat: Let's shift to the kid who was in comparative sports and was doing really well, and now his or her world was shattered this last year. And so now they're kind of in a bit of a funk. They're sitting at home. And now it's going to open up again, and it is going to open up sooner than later. And they don't want to get involved, or they don't want to go back to it, or they've lost their interest. How would you get them to feel better again, and to want to reinvigorate themselves, as well as just getting out there and having exercise, which we all need?

Erica Ehm: Well, I think the first thing is, I think the pandemic has changed a lot of people. And I think that teenagers change naturally. So I think a teenager who was one person pre-pandemic, could actually have lost interest in whatever that sport was. Because that's natural for kids to change. So number one, don't force your kids and really listen to them. They should be guiding it. They're the ones that have to want to do it. At the same time, is that kids sometimes need to do things on their own schedule. So as long as they're outside doing something and facing what is making them anxious a little bit, that if they really are still interested, they will make their way back. On their own terms, though. A parent cannot force a kid. I think let them take the lead.

Jack Muskat: So what you're saying, and to kind of add to it a bit, is you acknowledge and validate their feelings and don't get into a confrontation or a conflict. But then also say maybe we take baby steps. Maybe we just see if you like it or just show up. It may just be lack of practice effect. And what you're also saying, and I think it's really important for parents to hear this, is you're treating your kids with such respect. And it actually cuts both ways. Because by treating them with respect, you can have an adult expectation of them that says, because I don't scrutinize you, because I don't snoop in what you're doing, I don't track your phone, because I have that trust for you, my view is, we're just here to raise them. By the time they hit their teens, it's their peers and other interests that are important for them. And our role is really not to get in their way, but keep them out of trouble. It's like we're all golfers: make few errors, but don't try to lead them to where they need to go.

Erica Ehm: I a hundred percent agree with you. And in my therapy as a parent, I was taught that. Which was: get out of their way, validate them, and stop snooping and trust them. And I cannot tell you the difference. Within three weeks or so, she was speaking to me differently. She was talking to me not as an adversary but as a colleague, almost. She became less defensive and more cooperative.

Jack Muskat: I was gonna ask you about gaming, and if you have some things to say about it, fine. But it's a real question around the fact that 25 percent of teens are now gaming a lot. And the general idea is gaming is bad, and it's a kind of, you know, virtual world. It's not the real world. It's not healthy. And then I did a little more research, and I wanted to get your opinion on this, is that many kids found that through gaming, it wasn't actually the gaming itself, but it was the people that were the players, that that's how they were able to get a social network for themselves and make friends. Are there any positive aspects to it in your view? Or are you completely opposed to it?

Erica Ehm: My son is completely immersed in the world of gaming since the lockdown happened. And he is meeting people, and it makes them happy. And I have no problem because he's absolutely keeping up with his schoolwork. It is his only way to safely communicate with people who want to have some fun. Listen, I think the rules are different during pandemics. I think that once the lockdown is done and he can freely leave the house without fear for his health or his family's health, there will be no reason for him to be stuck in the basement gaming with strangers. My hope is that he'll go to school, or he'll go to the archery down the street to the shooting gallery, and start getting outside and doing the things he loves without worry for health. And right now, he's doing the right thing by staying inside, which is what everybody is telling everyone to do. Stay home, stay safe. They're not saying to stay off the games. They're not saying don't talk to people virtually. So right now, I think that as long as kids are eating properly, sleeping properly, getting outside, doing their homework, it's going to end soon, the pandemic is going to end soon. And then the rules or expectations and health changes again.

Jack Muskat: What other issues have you heard from parents?

Erica Ehm: I can tell you something which may surprise you. We did a survey with our parents, 700 parents from across Canada, and we asked them "Have there been any silver linings?" And almost 50 percent of them said that they have better relationships with their teens now. Because their teens are not being distracted by the lure of their tribe of their friends. They can't go out, and so they're coming out of their bedrooms and doing, you know, goofy stuff with their parents, like playing board games and talking, etc. So the pandemic hasn't been all bad. In addition, another silver lining of the pandemic is I know where my kids are all the time. And you can laugh, but as a parent of a teenager, a daughter, and actually my son too, when they would go out at night, yes, they had a phone. And yes, I would say "Don't do anything stupid. And, you know, if you're going to drink, drink one beer, you know, so that you're enjoying yourself." But we were worried all the time. We stayed up until they got home, and sometimes they would miss their curfew or they would disappear. And that's not just me, those are like, my peers. So that disappeared for the last year.

Jack Muskat: Right. So in a way, it's kind of nice, because it's like those rainy weekends at the cottage where you can sit and play board games, I've actually got a copy of that survey in front of me. But there was some other things in it that you mentioned that were very stressful on moms and I'm, in my therapy, I'm seeing a lot of moms who are struggling with the double-triple burden of the homeschooling, the other spouse, and the kids.

Erica Ehm: My survey is an incredibly scary snapshot of how women are feeling, and how the pandemic decimated sort of 20 years of women moving forward in their lives. Only seven percent of women said that they were feeling fine during the pandemic. The majority of them feel anxious and stressed about their family's health, about their health. They don't have enough hours in the day to manage both their kids' education, which for the most part has been online. Many of the women have jobs, which they're now forced to do at home while taking care of their kids, which is impossible. There is an awful lot of stress and anxiety. Kids notice everything. For me, I'm pretty candid with my kids. You know, my husband's job, he had a business and it closed because of COVID. So he hasn't had income for a year. It's been really stressful. And my kids are impacted because we can't buy stuff like we used to. We have to watch our pennies. And for my daughter who is—you know, she believes in the power of retail therapy, this is hard for her. Now I tell her that we're okay. We'll get through it. But I am candid with her about how we're feeling. Because I think I need to explain why certain things aren't happening, and why I may be working a little harder. And I feel like I'm teaching her. I'm modelling resilience and grit. And the fact that I'm having a really hard time or my husband is having a really hard time, but we're okay.

Jack Muskat: And the thing is for the teenagers and for the parents, and why I cited your survey, and what I'm seeing in my office as well is that if you're all in this together, everyone is suffering a loss. The kids who aren't going to go to the prom, the kids who aren't going to see their friends, the kids who have lost in so many ways, a year and a half of education, parents who've lost jobs who are working at home, where incomes have dropped. To be able to say, "We're in this together." And that optimism and resilience that you talk about is so important. And also because you want to protect your kids, but your kids also want to protect you. But if you are honest with them and say, "We're going to get through this. I will get another job." Or, "We will be able to live a different way," or, "Here are our plans." Yes, it's a challenge, but you never know what's going to happen in life. And so you have to develop those resilience skills and the ability to problem solve your way through something, and to feel healthy. And as you say, and I'm just going to repeat what you're saying because Erica, it's so important as we close, getting enough sleep, eating properly, getting the proper amount of exercise, having good communication, using your social media in a responsible way, being optimistic, not giving up, and always feeling that you can turn to someone and ask for help if you need it.

Jack Muskat: So is there anything else you'd like to add? Because I think it's been such a pleasure talking to you and having you sharing with us your thoughts in such a candid and open manner. It's been very, very useful. I know that our audience is going to appreciate it.

Erica Ehm: How can I book an appointment with you? You're awesome.

Jack Muskat: [laughs] Just call the office. Thank you very much. It's been a pleasure. Bye now.

Erica Ehm: Bye.

Christopher Shulgan: And that's it for the conversation between Medcan psychology team lead Dr. Jack Muskat and Erica Ehm—who is on social media all over the place. You can start with YMC.ca and EricaEhm.com. And then she's on Twitter and Instagram @ericaehm. That's Erica E-H-M.

Christopher Shulgan: I'm executive producer Christopher Shulgan. Find show notes and full episode transcripts at EatMoveThinkpodcast.com.

Christopher Shulgan: Eat Move Think is produced by Ghost Bureau. Senior producer is Russell Gragg. Editorial and social media support from Chantel Guertin, Emily Mannella and Tiffany Lewis.

Christopher Shulgan: Remember to rate and subscribe to Eat Move Think on your favourite podcast platform. Follow our host Shaun Francis on Twitter and Instagram @Shauncfrancis—that's Shaun with a U—and Medcan @medcanlivewell. We'll be back soon with a new episode examining the latest in health and wellness.

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