Ep. 71: Friendship and Kindness with Marta Zaraska

Listen, Rate & Subscribe

Apple Podcasts // Spotify // Google Podcasts // Stitcher

Those who are focused on living long tend to be obsessed with diet and exercise. But what if something else is as important, if not more important, to living a long and healthy life? That’s the argument science journalist and bestselling author Marta Zaraska makes in her book Growing Young: How Friendship, Optimism and Kindness Can Help You Live to 100. As it turns out, having a strong, supportive social network is key to our longevity — in fact, Zaraska says it can lower your mortality risk by 65 percent, which is more than both diet and exercise. On this week’s episode, Zaraska joins host and Medcan CEO Shaun Francis to discuss her findings.

LINKS

Marta Zaraska can be found on Twitter and over on her website. 

You can buy Growing Young here. You can also check out her previous book Meathooked, about the history and science of our cultural obsession with meat, here. 

Read an article Zaraska wrote on kindness for the BBC here, and then watch her discuss the ideas in her book on The Social.

Also sit down with this recent New York Times feature, which explores how to navigate your friendships in a post-pandemic world.

INSIGHTS

Zaraska knows that when she talks about how friendship and kindness are essential to our long-term health, it can be easy to dismiss it as “New Age-y” fluff, but science and data backs this up. While working on her book, Zaraska read hundreds of research papers and interviewed many scientists and discovered that having a strong social network can reduce your risk of mortality by an impressive 65 percent. Diet and exercise, on the other hand, lowers it by 20 to 30 percent. “You still want to eat healthy and exercise,” says Zaraska. “But if you’ve completely forgotten about the social and mental side, then you’re definitely missing a huge opportunity to become healthier and live longer.” [2:38]

So what are some of the actual health benefits we get from our relationships? Holding hands or hugging someone boosts oxytocin — the stress-reducing “love” hormone — and serotonin, which can lower our inflammation levels. Social connection can also give us endorphins, which are not only natural painkillers, but also encourage us to trust people more. There’s even evidence that being surrounded by others can decrease levels of the stress hormone cortisol, which is tied to inflammation and has been linked to a number of illnesses, like cardiovascular disease, cancer and diabetes. [6:34]

If you take away just one thing from Zaraska’s book, it should be that romantic love, especially, plays an important role in our health and longevity — a romantic relationship alone can reduce your mortality risk by 45 percent. Typically, they’ll lower our stress levels and make us feel safe and cared for. That said, studies show that women need to feel like they’re in a high-quality romantic partnership to experience the health benefits, while men can still get them in a lower-quality relationship. [10:54] 

The pandemic, and lockdowns, have had a detrimental impact on our relationships and overall health. Not only were we missing out on the hormonal benefits of being around people, many of us have also felt isolated and lonely — something that can be connected to things like increased blood pressure and cancer. “Even if we didn’t come down with the virus itself, the whole stress of [the situation] was certainly not beneficial to our health,” Zaraska says. [17:25]

It’s not just about our relationships either — being kind is also good for our health and longevity. “Evolution rewards us for being good team players in our tribe,” Zaraska explains. Acts of kindness, whether it’s helping your friends or mowing your elderly neighbour’s lawn, can calm our stress levels. One study even found that a group of people who performed random acts of kindness everyday for six weeks had a different gene expression in their white blood cells, which were more protective against inflammation. Even something like donating money to charity has health benefits. [19:32]

You know what they say: Practice makes perfect. Empathy is, in part genetic, but it can be improved upon — just like your fitness levels can improve by exercising more. Studies show that reading or watching emotionally charged books and movies can help our empathy levels grow. Zaraska suggests even doing a simple exercise where you spend a few minutes trying to see the world from another person’s point of view. [22:06]

Zaraska suggests paying as much attention to how you eat as what you eat. The Mediterranean diet is the gold standard, but we fixate too much on its actual contents. Zaraska currently lives in France, where eating is a leisurely, communal experience, similar to how meals occur in Spain and Italy. Both the type of food, and the social act of eating, provide health benefits. “If you eat a Mediterranean diet, even the best one, alone in your car on the way to work, it’s not going to have the same benefits as the way it [will] if you [spend] two hours sitting at a table with your friends and family,” she says. “It’s a very different story.” [28:06]

EPISODE 71: FRIENDSHIP AND KINDNESS WITH MARTA ZARASKA

FINAL WEB TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Shulgan: Welcome to Eat Move Think, episode 71. I'm Christopher Shulgan, executive producer. We're talking about loneliness and community in this episode, which is timely as we all start to think about socializing in person. Marta Zaraska is a France-based science journalist who writes frequently for Scientific American, the Washington Post and The Atlantic. She's also the author of a book called Growing Young: How Friendship, Optimism and Kindness Can Help You Live to 100. Her argument? Diet and exercise are important for our long-term health and fitness, but what really ensures a long and happy life is social connection.

[00:00:46.05]

Christopher Shulgan: Zaraska acknowledges that social ties are not commonly included in the scientific conversation. How can good relationships possibly affect our longevity? Like, what's the biological mechanism there? So Zaraska dug into the science, and in effect reverse-engineered what's happening. Her investigation attests to the holistic nature of wellness—the extent that our emotional lives can affect the physical sphere, the extent that our bodies benefit from being around, well, other bodies that know us and like us, in a way that bodes well for our health as society moves toward a more social reality.

[00:01:23.24]

Christopher Shulgan: Our host for this episode is Medcan CEO Shaun Francis, who really grills Zaraska on the material, with a view to gleaning tips that can help us all. Here's Shaun's conversation with author Marta Zaraska.

[00:01:39.02]

Shaun Francis: I want to welcome Marta Zaraska, to our podcast, Eat Move Think. I'm Shaun Francis, the CEO of Medcan. And Marta is a very accomplished science journalist who's been published in many name periodicals, and has some books out, and most recently one called Growing Young: How Friendship, Optimism and Kindness Can Help You Live to 100. So thank you Marta for joining us today.

[00:02:06.01]

Marta Zaraska: It's my pleasure.

[00:02:08.03]

Shaun Francis: Why don't we just kick this off and get into it because it's a really interesting topic. We've heard about people having a social network can positively influence your life, but you're going further than that, and saying that it's profoundly influential in your length of life. How did you get into this to begin with? Like, what prompted you to dig on this idea of friendship and this mental state?

[00:02:34.26]

Marta Zaraska: I mean, it's something that came up naturally out of my work. As you've mentioned before, I work for Scientific American, the Washington Post, and I've been writing for them for a very long time about things like nutrition and health and mental health as well. And also in my private life, I've always been quite into healthy living as well, and following the usual path of exercise and nutrition. And sometimes, you know, going a little bit maybe overboard as well and a little bit too much into kind of obsessive looking for absolutely perfect miracle foods and supplements and the ingredient of the day. And meanwhile at work, I started coming across more and more research that was showing that perhaps other things were at least as important as diet and exercise, if not even more important. And those things were exactly friendship, optimism, kindness, having meaning in life, things like that. And so I started digging more into this topic, and I've read, actually, over 600 research papers and talked to thousands of scientists to write Growing Young. And this helped me realize exactly how important those things are, that some of them are actually more important than diet and exercise, especially if the diet is this kind of obsessive search for miracle foods I was also engaging in myself.

[00:03:54.19]

Shaun Francis: Was there any singular piece of research that was groundbreaking on this front? Or was it just the constellation of deeper diving into the subject matter?

[00:04:04.19]

Marta Zaraska: I mean, so the first piece of research that was really eye-opening for me was a meta-analysis of studies. So this kind of golden standard of research, when scientists put together all the important previous studies on the topic and kind of try to draw a big picture out of it. So what the scientists did was to compare all the social drivers of health. So exactly how socially integrated you are—so meaning how many friends you have, maybe your neighbours, whether you have a romantic partner, to things such as diet and exercise and smoking. And they showed very clearly that, for instance, diet and exercise can lower your mortality risk by about 20 to 30 percent, whereas being socially integrated, you know, the whole compound of having friends, neighbours and so on, can lower your mortality risk by 65 percent. So this really was eye-opening to me, because I realized how important those things are, not only they are important, but they are tremendously important.

[00:05:06.14]

Marta Zaraska: Of course, it doesn't mean that diet and exercise are not important, because 20 and 30 percent of lower mortality risk is still a lot, and you definitely want to eat healthy and exercise. But if you're completely forgetting about the social and mental side, then you're definitely missing a huge opportunity to become healthier and live longer.

[00:05:25.12]

Shaun Francis: Marta, we're talking a lot about mortality risk. Can you define what does that mean, exactly?

[00:05:31.13]

Marta Zaraska: So I will have to simplify, otherwise, I will be talking for a very long time in very complicated terms. But in a very oversimplified manner, you can say that mortality risk is the probability that, within the period of a certain study, so let's say that the study group was followed by seven or 10 years, in that period, certain people were less likely to die than they normally would within that period, right? So this is kind of the most basic, simplified definition.

[00:06:02.04]

Shaun Francis: We know the science behind exercise, and how it can positively influence your physiology and then act as an anti-aging method. And similarly with diet to some degree, right? The bad things of course, obesity and so forth. What's the science behind having these friendships and acts of kindness and being conscientious?

[00:06:26.02]

Marta Zaraska: I mean, there was another surprising thing for me because, you know, when people hear about kindness or friendship, and they think it kind of sounds new age-y, right? It's like some kind of fluffy stuff. But it's absolutely nothing like that. There is a tremendous amount of research that has been done over the last few decades, showing the exact physiological connections between our social lives, our mental health and our physiological health and our longevity. And, you know, we have plenty of different systems that act as these connectors.

[00:06:56.11]

Marta Zaraska: So one is a set of social hormones that we have. So for instance, we have oxytocin, that is often called the love hormone. Which on one hand, makes you feel exactly all lovey-dovey when you're with your loved ones, and you get the boost of it when you're, for example, hugging your friends or holding hands with your loved one. But on the other hand, it has very direct physiological effects on our body. For example, it can lower inflammation levels, it can promote bone growth. There is also serotonin, a hormone with similar functions, also connecting us socially to other people. But also, for instance, impacting liver function. You have endorphins, which are natural painkillers, but also make you trust other people more. So there is this whole set of hormones that connects the way we live socially, and with direct physiological functions in our body.

[00:07:46.29]

Marta Zaraska: Then you have the stress system. So for example, the HPA axis, which, you know, connects your brain with all downstream effects on—and release of hormones such as cortisol into your body, so the stress hormone. And this stress axis also functions the best when you're surrounded by other people. Which basically means that you have, for instance, lower levels of the stress hormone cortisol, you have lower inflammation levels. And this is all extremely beneficial to health. You know, the stress and inflammation has been connected to lots of various diseases from cardiovascular disease, cancer, diabetes, Alzheimer's disease.

[00:08:24.00]

Marta Zaraska: And when we think from an evolutionary perspective, this all makes perfect sense because humans are social apes, right? We evolved to be surrounded by our own people, by our tribe, just like our cousins chimpanzees, for instance. You know, they live in a tribe, and their bodies function the best when they are with others, they feel safe. And all the mechanisms like the stress mechanisms, function the best when they're with others. An interesting side to it is that when we are lonely, other mechanisms turn on, which in the evolutionary past were actually beneficial to us, but in modern times are often detrimental.

[00:09:00.26]

Marta Zaraska: So when we are with our tribe, when we are with other people, as we very well know today, this is when we are much more likely to catch viruses, right? So our antiviral response in our body goes up to protect us better from viruses. But because our bodies, you know, they're imperfect, and they don't have unlimited stores of energy, when we get lonely, when we're outside of our tribe, there is no longer a need to protect so much from viruses, so to save energy, the other systems turn on instead. So this is an antibacterial system—inflammation, basically. Because when our ancestors were lonely, that usually meant that they were alone on the savanna. And when you were alone on the savanna, you were much more likely to be wounded by wild animals or, you know, falling, scratching, breaking your legs and stuff like that. And this is where bacterial infections were much more likely, so you had to protect your body from infection, inflammation will go up.

[00:09:52.20]

Marta Zaraska: But unfortunately, in modern times, you know, being lonely does not mean being much more likely to be wounded. And the kind of chronic inflammation that it causes, you know, no longer protects us, but actually leads long term to this regulation of the systems and all these kinds of cardiovascular disease, diabetes and other diseases we call the diseases of civilization, right? So you can see how the mechanisms that worked for our benefit in the past, nowadays can sometimes misfire and make things worse for us.

[00:10:23.24]

Shaun Francis: Well, that's fascinating. I mean, I have read a lot about how inflammation can be an accelerator. And so it's interesting to think about it in the context of friendships and these social networks. You mentioned a romantic relationship as well. Is that a separate variable to number of friends?

[00:10:41.27]

Marta Zaraska: Yes. So the romantic relationship seems to hold a special place when it comes to our health and longevity. So if you were to do only one thing from the set of things I mentioned in Growing Young for your health, that'd be exactly finding romantic love. This alone can lower your mortality risk by about 45 percent. Once again, you know, diet and exercise, those are about 20 to 30 percent. So this is the most important thing that general research comes out as mostly connected to health. And once again, you know, a large part of it is also due to this kind of stress response, that we feel safe when we are with someone who cares about it, that we know that we can rely on this person that will help us if we're in need, take care of us. And of course, it means that it's best when the relationship is really high quality, right? So the safer you feel, the more taken care of you feel, the lower inflammation you have, and the lower stress response, lower levels of cortisol, with all the potential health benefits.

[00:11:37.13]

Shaun Francis: So I have read where people who are married do live longer, right? And you always see the anecdotes of people who after being married for many, many years lose their partner, and then shortly thereafter they pass away, too. So is that, in effect, what you're calling out here? Is there any sort of quality of marriage that matters? Or is it just you know, that security of a partner?

[00:12:00.11]

Marta Zaraska: It's both. So weirdly, for women, the marriage has to be high quality. Low-quality relationships don't give the same boost. But for men, there was something that was puzzling scientists for quite a while, even a low-quality relationship, romantic relationship can still offer health benefits, which, you know, sounds kind of counterintuitive, but on the other hand, when the researchers started digging into it, they realized that part of it is the so-called nag factor, you know, when women tell men to eat healthier, exercise and go see a doctor. And another part of is that women tend to be more of the organizers of the social lives of the family. So they connect the family with, you know, the larger family, with friends, with neighbours. And this way, men can profit from the relationship, even if the marriage itself or the relationship itself is not offering the stress-lowering benefits.

[00:12:59.01]

Shaun Francis: Well, you mentioned family as well. Where does that factor in?

[00:13:03.18]

Marta Zaraska: I mean, so basically social connections, right? So it doesn't have to be blood relatives, it can be friends as well, right? So in this kind of regard, they can be replaceable in a way. So as long as you have people around you who you know that would help you if you were in need. So if you have people who would bring you soup if you fall sick, or drive you to the doctor or drive you to the airport. It's like people you know that will come to your rescue, basically. And people in whom you can confide. And this is what you need for this feeling of safety that has all these benefits for health.

[00:13:34.09]

Marta Zaraska: Another thing that I haven't mentioned before, another connector between our mental and social health and then our physiology is actually our gut microbiota. So we often don't realize that, but we actually exchange microbes with our friends and family. So when you hug people, when you hold hands with them, even when you play contact sports, you're actually exchanging microbes with others. And we know that generally the more diverse gut microbiome, that means better health. And it also influences our mental health as well. This is all basically interconnected. Those social hormones I mentioned before, they are also interacting with gut microbiota. So it's kind of all the interconnected things together. You know, the stress response, the social hormones, the gut microbes, they all together, you know, work best and function best when we are surrounded by other people, when we are hugging, touching them, holding hands, exchanging those microbes to benefit our health.

[00:14:28.05]

Shaun Francis: Is there any number of friends that's optimal? I mean, I've read some research, you know, suggesting we often will have about six friends, and maybe not even a capacity to have maybe more than 40 or 50. Although people might have a network, but our human capacity is somewhat limited. Have you looked into that?

[00:14:49.02]

Marta Zaraska: I mean, so there's the famous Dunbar number, right? So I met Professor Dunbar at Oxford University when I was writing Growing Young. So we've talked exactly about that. So the famous Dunbar number has been calculated basically by the size of our brain, how much capacity do we have for holding onto relationships. And generally, Professor Dunbar calculated it's about 150, right? So you cannot hold on to more than 150 relationships. And of course, these are of various proximities. So the closest friends are about five to seven that you can really have, right? And then there are kind of more and more distanced relationships. But you really cannot have any meaningful relationship with more than 150 people. From the health perspective, there are also two things here. So there is a social connectedness. So basically, being included in the community. And this is where it's kind of the more the better. So kind of feeling that you know people around you, right? And you are not alone. You're knowing your neighbours, you know, having extended family, having friends, and so on. But when it comes to friendship itself, there is no exact number, as long as you feel that your needs are met.

[00:15:54.28]

Shaun Francis: How do you think the pandemic has factored in? Does the medium of friendship matter?

[00:16:01.28]

Marta Zaraska: I mean, I don't think that for real friendship it matters at all because, you know, even if you were not able to meet your real friends in person because of lockdowns and stuff like that, you still knew they were there. You know, if you fell sick, they could still drop off that soup on your doorstep and leave without even seeing you, right? You could still have called them if you needed emotional support. So even though it might have been quite frustrating, you know, not to be able to hug and see each other, for a real relationship I don't think that was a big deal. You know, for acquaintances, yes, the relationship could have gotten less strong for neighbours and things like that, it definitely was much worse. But for these kinds of closest people, I don't think that relationship will be impacted by things like that. And, you know, they can really retake very fast after the lockdowns are no longer there.

[00:16:52.14]

Shaun Francis: You talk about stress quite a bit, though, and inflammation, and how stress can accelerate it. COVID has been stressful. Could we be taking years off of our lives?

[00:17:03.04]

Marta Zaraska: I mean, yeah. Definitely, you know, the lockdowns and the stress and the anxiety it causes, and the fact that we were not hugging, you know, and holding hands and exchanging microbes and getting less oxytocin because, you know, we get oxytocin, the love hormone, social hormone when we're, for instance, touching or hugging or looking directly into each other's eyes. And so we were not getting that. Even if we didn't come down with the virus itself, you know, the whole stress of it was certainly not beneficial to health.

[00:17:30.14]

Shaun Francis: You also talked about immunity and this idea of, if you're isolated, our physiological response is to suppress our immunity and increase inflammation. Can you talk about that in terms of COVID? Because we've isolated a lot of people. And really, contrary to immunity, we've told them, in effect, don't work out, and stay home and isolate.

[00:17:54.12]

Marta Zaraska: I mean, isolation and loneliness in studies has been connected to lots of detrimental effects. You know, people who are lonely, they have, for instance, increased expression of genes that are connected to cancer. They have higher blood pressure. They even have shorter telomeres, so those protective caps at the ends of chromosomes that take an important part in the aging process. So there's lots of bad things going on, basically, when you're lonely. And even as for, you know, our immune systems, studies show that the more you hug people, the less likely you are to have an upper respiratory infection, you know? Which is kind of ironic. And also, the more socially connected you feel, the better you respond to vaccines. So of course, this has not been studied on COVID vaccines yet, but it has been studied on flu vaccines and other ones as well. That's exactly the social connectedness, the feeling of being socially connected, makes us produce higher antibody levels to flu vaccination.

[00:18:49.16]

Shaun Francis: You talk about active acts of kindness, and being conscientious. How does that factor in?

[00:18:55.08]

Marta Zaraska: I mean, so this is also part of a similar story, right? Of us being good tribe members, basically. So evolution rewards us for being good team players in our tribe. And so all these kinds of acts of giving, whether it's helping your family, your friends again, or your community, benefit our health as well. We've basically evolved something that scientists call the caregiving system. This is a way that your fear centres in your brain, such as the amygdala, connect with the stress response and with your hormones, again, cortisol, adrenaline, and so on to, on one hand, motivate you to give more, but also to reward you by calming your stress response.

[00:19:36.22]

Marta Zaraska: So there are studies showing that even things like random acts of kindness, so the various small things we can do in everyday life, like holding doors open for someone, or letting someone ahead of you in traffic, or picking up litter in your neighbourhood, they can actually boost our health. So in one fascinating study like that, people were randomized to two groups for six weeks. So one group was just weightless, so they were doing nothing, basically. And the second group had to perform these kinds of acts of kindness. So they had a list to choose from. They could, like, buy coffee for a stranger in a coffee shop, do small things like bring chocolates to work to share with others. And at the end of the study, they took blood samples from everyone, and they discovered that people who were doing those acts of random kindness, they actually had a different gene expression in their white blood cells. That basically, their inflammation was less turned on, you could say. Which will be protective, once again, against inflammation, which is connected to all those diseases of civilization, like cardiovascular disease, diabetes, and so on.

[00:20:42.06]

Marta Zaraska: So even small acts of kindness like that matter. And there's lots and lots of research on volunteers, for instance, that they had lower blood pressure, they spend fewer nights in hospitals than people who do not volunteer. Also even monetary donations can be better for your health. For example, once people donate money, they feel stronger, and they actually can hold weights much longer than if they don't donate. So there's a lot of fascinating effects on how this kind of feeling of giving something back can impact our body and how strong and how healthy we are.

[00:21:15.07]

Shaun Francis: And that's something you know, we can obviously work on, right? Like, we could decide we're going to be kind. Is it something you either have or you don't? Or is it something that you could practice?

[00:21:26.10]

Marta Zaraska: I mean, you can absolutely practice that. So one quality that's behind both having good relationships and being kind and giving and helping others is empathy, right? And, to a point, empathy is genetic. So you have inherited part of how empathetic you are from your parents. But just like other personality traits, for instance, empathy can be improved. So you can work on it. I often compare it to muscles, right? For instance, how strong you are in terms of your muscles or body structure is highly genetic. For instance, I wasn't born to be, you know, a super fast sprinter or a super strong swimmer. And yet it doesn't mean that I don't try to run longer distances or faster. I still exercise. I still try to improve. And it's the same with empathy, right? Maybe you're not born with the best empathy genes, but it doesn't mean you cannot improve and get better with practice, basically.

[00:22:21.03]

Marta Zaraska: And so, you know, studies show that things like reading emotionally-charged books or watching emotionally-charged movies, talking to people who are very different from you. All these kinds of things can actually help us improve our empathy. Or even such simple exercises as trying for a few minutes a day to see the world from another person's perspective. You might be sitting in a cafe and you spoke to someone, and just for two minutes, try to think what the other person is thinking or feeling. And that's all you need to kind of boost your empathy.

[00:22:52.22]

Shaun Francis: Should you be building out your network? Or how do you think of that? Like, is it something that's static, or is it something that you need to think about differently?

[00:23:02.03]

Marta Zaraska: I mean, it's absolutely not static. So you have to work on your relationships, right? This is absolutely basic, and goes as much for your romantic relationship as for your friendships. If you don't work on them, the quality will just not be there, right? You have to invest time and effort. There's just no way around it. The same goes, for example, for knowing your neighbours, right? For the last chapter of Growing Young, I travelled to Japan, because this is, you know, the longest-lived nation on the planet. And there they have this kind of really neat rule, this two plus three rule, and it just means that you should know neighbours in five houses: two houses on the sides of your own house and three kind of in front of you. Which is exactly like, you know, to feel connected and have these kinds of health benefits. You basically have to go out and meet them and talk to them and know them. And this is something that a large percentage of Americans unfortunately don't do, and they don't know their neighbours. Canadians as well.

[00:23:57.14]

Shaun Francis: Yeah, that's very true. Like, I think we used to, and it seems like we don't make that effort anymore. Why do you think that's happened?

[00:24:05.28]

Marta Zaraska: That's a very good question, you know? I mean, a big part of it, I think, is how communities in North America are built. You know, when you live in the suburbs—and I lived in the suburbs—everybody just drives everywhere. So you don't have this kind of opportunity to meet your neighbours. Even standing in line to the same store, you don't meet them on the way for your walk. You just don't bump into them, you know? Now I live in a small French village, and I constantly bump into my neighbours. You know, it's impossible not to bump into my neighbours. I just walk out of my doors, and I will have at least five conversations with someone. And when I lived in Canada in suburbia, you know, I never bumped into anybody. It was just always empty, you know? People just open—the garage doors open and people leave. And so it's really hard to meet people. The opportunities are just not there.

[00:24:56.11]

Shaun Francis: You wrote a book on meat. And I want to just draw this back into this discussion. You know, everyone says the Mediterranean diet is the preferred diet. How do you think about diet and relationships? Is there a connection?

[00:25:09.23]

Marta Zaraska: I mean, so once again, diet is very important for health, and there are definite benefits to the Mediterranean diet. You know, you can lower your mortality risk by about 21 percent. So it is really good for you. But as I write in Growing Young, when we talk about the Mediterranean diet, we fixate so much on how much olive oil it contains, or what types of vegetable oils, or how much wine and things like that, and we completely don't look at how these diets are consumed. Once again, I live in France, you know, and the way people eat here is also very special, right? The same goes for Italians, for Spanish people. So the communal part of eating is extremely important. So they eat with others. They really take their time, and they like to eat in big groups. You know, eating alone in your car is really frowned upon. So this part of the Mediterranean diet, I think is something that's really hasn't been looked at enough to determine how much this plays a role in the healthiness of these populations. If you eat a Mediterranean diet—even the best one—alone in your car on the way to work, it's not going to have the same benefits as the way it is supposed to be eaten, you know, for two hours sitting at a table with your friends, with your family. It's a very different story.

[00:26:27.12]

Shaun Francis: Looking at fitness for a moment, so we know that also is a positive contributor to longevity. I mean, the pandemic has really illustrated this, right? You can do things virtually or on your own, or you can go to a club or do a class. Lockdowns have really killed that off. But is that something else to be thinking of to get in your social network, that we may be combining the activities?

[00:26:49.17]

Marta Zaraska: Absolutely. You know, I think this is the best way to profit both from your exercise routine and from your social life. So for example, go jogging with a friend, right? Or play tennis with someone, right? You know, not just go to the gym to run on the treadmill on your own with your headphones on, because you won't get the same benefit. So there are fascinating studies on something called synchrony. This is also again actually done in Professor Dunbar's lab in University of Oxford. And what they have discovered is that when people do things in synchrony with others, so be it dancing or rowing, or even singing, like choir singing, they have double the amount of endorphins—so these kinds of social hormones again—than when they do things alone. And endorphins not only make you feel more connected to other people, but they also, once again, have these physiological effects. For example, they lower pain levels. So you can see how running with a friend would be better for you than just doing it alone, both for the quality of your relationship, and for the direct health effects on your social hormones.

[00:27:52.01]

Shaun Francis: What's the single best thing you think we could do? Or if we had to make a change, to really enhance our longevity?

[00:27:59.20]

Marta Zaraska: I mean, so I think it's just realizing that our social lives matter so much for our health. Just, you know, having this moment of realization that it's not just diet and exercise, right? And that we have to think in these kinds of social terms. And just doing things for others, I think. Because if you have this mental set of looking outwards, and looking at other people's needs, this will both boost your relationships, this will also make you more connected, this will, you know, be those acts of kindness, volunteering, and so on, and also can bring you meaning in life. Meaning in life is another factor that's found in studies to be of tremendous importance for longevity, and especially for your cardiovascular health. This is something the Japanese call "ikigai." So kind of having a reason to live. And definitely doing things for others is a very powerful way for finding this kind of ikigai.

[00:28:53.26]

Shaun Francis: Well, that's amazing. Thank you, Marta, for your time. It's been super interesting. And for sure, a new way to think about our friendships and kindness. And it's always mentioned in Alzheimer's studies, for example, that having more social network is good, but I don't think we've talked about it holistically, and how it can really help with longevity and the quality of those relationships and the romantic relationship, and what you need to do to invest into it. So that's an extremely interesting perspective, and will be really helpful for our listeners as we consider our overall quality of life and health. So thank you very much.

[00:29:30.09]

Marta Zaraska: Thank you so much, Shaun.

[00:29:40.26]

Christopher Shulgan: That was Medcan CEO Shaun Francis in conversation with Marta Zaraska, the author of Growing Young: How Friendship, Optimism and Kindness Can Help You Live to 100. We'll post a link to that book at EatMoveThinkpodcast.com, as well as links and a summary of insights generated during the podcast, as well as a full episode transcript.

[00:30:01.16]

Christopher Shulgan: Eat Move Think is produced by Ghost Bureau. I'm executive producer Christopher Shulgan. Senior producer is Russell Gragg. Patricia Karounos is associate producer. Social media support from Emily Mannella and Andrew Imecs.

[00:30:15.09]

Christopher Shulgan: Remember to rate and subscribe to Eat Move Think on your favourite podcast platform. Follow our host Shaun Francis on Twitter and Instagram @ShaunCFrancis—that's Shaun with a U—and Medcan @Medcanlivewell. We'll be back soon with a new episode examining the latest in health and wellness.

-30-