Ep. 52: How to Not Die Alone with Logan Ury
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Behavioural scientist turned dating coach Logan Ury knows how to sustain lasting and happy relationships. And now she’s written a book with her findings: How to Not Die Alone: The Surprising Science That Will Help You Find Love. In this interview with Medcan psychology team lead Dr. Jack Muskat, Ury helps listeners understand their romantic tendencies. She also provides research-based tips on how we all can find and nurture connections with loved ones.
Links, references and highlights:
Purchase your copy of How to Not Die Alone at Indigo, Amazon and Indie Bound.
Download Ury’s Self-Reflection Worksheet, Relationship Contract or Breakup Contract.
Ury has been featured in USA Today, The New York Post and Thrive Global.
Guest Bio:
Logan Ury is the author of How to Not Die Alone and the co-founder and director of relationship science for the dating app Hinge. Armed with a psychology degree from Harvard University, Ury ran Google’s behavioural science team—aka The Irrational Lab. She is a featured speaker at SXSW 21.
How to Not Die Alone with Logan Ury final web transcript
Christopher Shulgan
Welcome to episode 52 of Eat Move Think, the podcast from Medcan that empowers people of all ages and cultures to live well for life. Executive producer Christopher Shulgan here. Relationships have become a hot topic lately. Whether your ties to other people have become strengthened or strained through recent events, many of us are evaluating our strategies for how to create and sustain lasting connections—particularly the romantic variety.
Christopher Shulgan
All of which makes today's guest so timely. Logan Ury is basically a dating coach, but one with some remarkable bona fides on her CV. She specializes in behavioural economics—which is the study of why we make the decisions we do. She ran Google's behavioural science lab, and today is the director of relationship science for Hinge—that's Canada's fastest growing dating app. Now, she's just released a book, How to Not Die Alone: The Surprising Science That Will Help You Find Love, which has already shot to bestseller status.
Christopher Shulgan
In this interview with Medcan psychology team lead Dr. Jack Muskat, Ury helps listeners understand their dating tendencies, what really matters in a long-term partner—and what doesn't—and why a relationship contract might be the missing piece in your own committed partnership. Whether you're happily married, in any sort of relationship or single and looking for love, this episode should inspire you to nurture better connections.
Christopher Shulgan
Here's Dr. Jack Muskat's conversation with Logan Ury.
Jack Muskat
I'm delighted to have Logan Ury with me today, who's just written a wonderful book called How to Not Die Alone. And it's about dating and relationships. Her book has just come out. In fact, it's the official launch day of your book. And I’d just like to start off with asking you, Logan, how you feel about waking up this morning, and knowing that your book is finally out?
Logan Ury
I feel great, yeah. It feels like I've been working towards this for, really, six years. So I can't believe that today is the day, and I'm happy to be spending it with you.
Jack Muskat
Well, thank you very much. And I know our audience is going to be very interested in hearing about your background and your wealth of experience in dating and relationships. But tell us a little bit about your academic background.
Logan Ury
I've always had these two interests, right? Psychology, how people make decisions, behavioural science, and then love, dating, sex and relationships. And so in college, I had the ability to study both. I studied psychology, but then I had a secondary field in women, gender and sexuality. Then when I graduated from college, I really invested in the psychology side of things. And I wanted to live in San Francisco. I wanted to work in tech, and Google at that time was the place to be. And so I had this amazing experience working with Dan Ariely, one of the behavioural economics greats, and really learning alongside him and running this team The Irrational Lab. And we would take these academic insights into decision-making and apply them to Google products, Google marketing, etc.
Logan Ury
At the time, I was single. The dating apps were brand new. I remember I was swiping for six hours the first night that I got Tinder. And so I was like, I'm struggling, and the people around me are having a hard time. How can I take what I know about decision-making, and apply it to dating and relationships? And I remember six years ago, March of 2015, I sat down at a coffee shop and I started a Google doc that was called "Behavioural science plus dating book." And now today, that book is finally out. But yeah, so that was a long way of saying, I've had these two interests, and I've been lucky enough to find a way to combine them. And my book, How to Not Die Alone is—basically, the philosophy is great relationships are the culmination of a series of good decisions. Make good decisions along the way, and you'll wind up in a good relationship. Make bad decisions along the way, and you'll wind up in a lousy relationship or no relationship at all. And I'm really excited to share some of that with your listeners today.
Jack Muskat
That's great. And I was just so intrigued that you titled your book, How to Not Die Alone. Are you saying that everyone is just afraid of being alone, but the way that we're connecting is not working through the apps? And that what you're doing is you're helping us by providing us with the tools and the background and the context to make better decisions? What are the things that you're seeing that are making it so difficult for us to feel comfortable with ourselves, to make those right choices and to move on with confidence?
Logan Ury
Yeah, I mean, that's a fascinating question. There's a lot of directions that I can take it. First, I'll just speak to why I called the book How to Not Die Alone. And I've had a couple people reach out to me on the internet and say, "This is triggering to me. I'm already scared enough. Why did you call it that?" But that's the point of the title. The point of the title is that it's supposed to be provocative. And you're supposed to say to yourself, "I'm on a path, and where is that path headed?" And if that path is headed towards dying alone and that's not what you want, then you need to shift the direction, make different choices and wind up somewhere else. And so the book is supposed to be that jolt, that feeling of how can I change my bad habits and behaviour? And what's been so fascinating to me in my work on the book and now my work at Hinge is that the pandemic has had a similar effect. I've seen people who have spent years and years prioritizing their work, prioritizing friendships, just anything but romantic relationships. And then they were quarantining alone, and they have had very lonely years. And they've said, "I'm sick of this, I want to change my priorities."
Logan Ury
And so the pandemic has been a similar jolt, where I have seen a large percentage of people now prioritizing dating and relationships for the first time. And so it is supposed to give you that feeling of fear. And if you are someone who's been looking for love for a while and it hasn't worked out for you, then I'd love to share some of the dating blind spots that I found, and then give you some tips and tricks on actually breaking them and developing new patterns.
Jack Muskat
One of the things you say in the first chapter of your book—and it's very true—you talk about not having role models, and people not really knowing what a good relationship should look like. And I think that also comes a little bit from your own personal experience. Maybe you want to tell us how that has made it so difficult for people to feel that they're doing the right thing when they don't know what the right thing should even look like?
Logan Ury
I'm really glad you brought up the role models thing, because that's some of my favourite research in the book, which is basically the importance of role models. And there's this study that shows that if women grow up in a neighbourhood where there are a lot of female inventors, women are not only more likely to be inventors—and this is as quantified by patents—but also they're more likely to be inventors in those areas, even if they don't know those other women. And it just talks about being in a community and seeing people who come before you. And you can't figure out how to do something unless you see other people doing it. And so for many of us, we have divorced parents. We are what Esther Perel calls "The children of the divorced and the disillusioned." And if you weren't able to see your parents in a happy relationship, then figuring out how to do it on your own is that much harder.
Jack Muskat
Mm-hmm. And I think that in—and I want to hear more about the types of people, the types of dating, because I took the quiz, and I am married, and I want to say I'm still happily married. What I wanted to know is, those styles are interesting. Do you want to talk a little bit about how people set themselves up in terms of their expectations and what they're looking for?
Logan Ury
Basically in my work as a dating coach, so doing one-on-one coaching with people who, you know, they're obviously frustrated, they're coming to me in this capacity and saying, "Why isn't this working out for me?" I realized that a lot of my clients were from all different backgrounds, but they seemed to have the same patterns of behaviour that were holding them back from finding love. And I call these dating blind spots, because they couldn't identify them on their own. And I organized them into a framework called the three dating tendencies. And each dating tendency suffers from unrealistic expectations but of different things.
Logan Ury
And so the first one is the romanticizer. And in the book, I talk about my client, Maya, who came to me and, you know, she actually did have role models. Her parents were Iranian, and they had been married for many, many years, and they had this great relationship and she wanted her happily ever after too. And so the romanticizer, they believe in soulmates. They believe there's one person out there for you. They believe that once you find that person, relationships will be effortless. And if they feel hard, then it must be the wrong person for you. And so the romanticizer has unrealistic expectations of relationships. And what I advised Maya and what I advise in the book is that if you're a romanticizer, you should shift from this "soulmate" mindset to what's called the "work it out" mindset. And that's the idea that relationships are work. If you feel like you're putting effort in, then you're doing it right. And that, instead of backing out when there is that inevitable rough spot, you actually just need to invest more. And that's how you create this long-term relationship. And so I blame fairy tales and rom-coms and lots of different things. But there's so many romanticizers who just expect love to feel a certain way. And that might be true in the beginning, but as you very well know, love goes through lots of different stages.
Logan Ury
The next type is the maximizer. And I would say this is the most common type among my clients, among a lot of my friends. And I think that makes sense, there's a lot of cultural reasons why. But the maximizer has unrealistic expectations of their partner. And a maximizer is someone who feels like they can research their way to the right answer, they can turn over every stone, and when they have a complete idea of the total set, then they can make the perfect decision. And they're obsessed with this idea of, could I be five percent happier? Is there someone out there who's five percent hotter, five percent more ambitious, five percent funnier? And they're always just trying to optimize.
Logan Ury
And what's wrong with the maximizer is that they think that life is about the objective right decision. But what we know from years of psychology research is that what matters way more is how you feel about your decision. And that when it comes to dating and relationships, everything is a compromise. There is no one perfect person, and it's just a question of finding them. You have to find someone. Basically the advice in the book is to do what satisficers do. And satisficers are people who set a bar. They can have high expectations, it's not about settling. And then they find someone who achieves that benchmark that they've set, and then they invest in that relationship. And so it's really about how you feel about your choice versus making the perfect choice.
Logan Ury
And finally, there's the hesitater. And the hesitater has unrealistic expectations of themselves. And I actually see this type the least in my dating coaching and the least on Hinge because they're not even dating. And this is the person who says, "I'll be ready to date when I lose 10 pounds. I'll be ready to date when I have a more impressive job. I'll be ready to date when the pandemic is over." And there's always a reason why they're just not ready yet. And they are making two important cognitive mistakes. One of them is that they are not getting the chance to get better at dating—and dating is absolutely a skill. And two, they're not figuring out what kind of person they want to be with. And so for the hesitater, my work is to give them a deadline, help them see themselves as a dater, help them understand that they don't need to change, they just need to put themselves out there. And that if they want to get better at dating and figure out who they want to be with, then they need to start now.
Jack Muskat
One of the most unique parts of your book that I really liked, and maybe it's because of your psychology background, you know, there's an expression: if you want to have less anger in the world, be less angry. If you want to see more love in the world, be more loving. And that there's a part of this lens that you really talk about. And I think it's important to amplify for our audience, that a lot of this work starts with ourselves.
Logan Ury
Oh, yeah, I think that's absolutely true. And there's a certain point where somebody comes to me—let's say they're 36, and they've been dating since they were 22. And they tell me story after story. And eventually, I just have to say, "The common denominator in these stories is you. And it's who you're picking, it's how you're showing up, it's what you're putting up with, it's not finding people who are serious about you, and thinking that that's acceptable." And a lot of the work that we do is talking about their patterns. And I should mention, I'm not a therapist, I don't claim to be doing therapy. In fact, I have many times either told someone, "Why don't you postpone working with me and doing kind of the dating strategy until you go to therapy?" Or many of my clients are seeing a therapist in tandem with the work that we're doing together. But yes, so much of how you show up in a relationship is who you are.
Logan Ury
I have a chapter in the book about attachment theory. And my editor kept saying, "You know, there's several great books about attachment theory out there. Do you really need to include this chapter?" And she was fighting with me on it, and I was like, "I just think attachment theory is so essential. And it's legitimately changed the game for me and other people in my life. And if this book is going to be some sort of A to Z guide for dating, I have to include it because it's that important to me." And attachment theory is all about understanding what your triggers are, how you can self regulate, what your historical patterns may be, and then what you can do to become more secure yourself, and also how to look for a secure partner. And similarly, when I talk about the hesitater, you know, what is the self-esteem issue going on, making someone feel like they're not worthy of love? And what is the framework in their mind that love is conditional, and that they will be lovable when they lose 10 pounds? And why would you want to be in a relationship with someone who only loves you when you are minus 10 pounds? And what happens when you gain the plus-25 when you stop your keto diet, or whatever it is. And so there's absolutely a big sense of self-worth, attachment. You know, all of this is really based in how we feel about ourselves. Where my angle comes in, is trying to empower people with the decision-making element of how they're approaching relationships.
Jack Muskat
Right. And I think you do it in a very fun and upbeat and optimistic way. And so much of what I like about your book, and even the—I think the contracts, the relationship one and the breakup one, is what we do in cognitive behavioural therapy is we really help people deal with their own cognitive biases. And we help them deal with probably the three biggest challenges we face around cognitive dissonance, and the confirmation bias and the availability hypothesis. And it's not that we're making mistakes because we're stupid, it's that we're not aware of the tension that the dissonance creates. And I think that you highlight it very nicely in your book that people have contradictory feelings and ideas. And then the way they resolve them, they're not always aware of them. And maybe you could talk a little bit more about it, because you've been an expert in that with your lab, and also and just your general interest in the field.
Logan Ury
Really, the thesis of behavioural science is that we're irrational, and that we often act against our own best interests. And so that might look like on New Year's we say, "This year, I'm going to work out every day." And then by day three, you stop going to the gym because it's easier not to. Or you say you're going to save for retirement, but then you get an email that there's a sale from West Elm and you buy a new rug. And we just consistently act against our own best interests. And there's lots of ways that it comes up. And so my mentor, Dan Ariely, his book is called Predictably Irrational. And so if you understand that there's this library of cognitive biases that are affecting your behaviour, you can actually start to work against them. And so one of my favourite one of these is called the present bias. And it sounds simple, but it's basically we disproportionately value the present. And that makes it hard for us to do things for the future. Some of the things I talked about: to eat healthy, to save money, to spend less, it's hard to do that, because we're focused on the present, and we're focused on pleasure.
Jack Muskat
So let me ask you a real question. So I can't get dump my horrible boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever. I can't get rid of them. But they're here. So the devil I know. It's better I stick around. Maybe they'll improve. How do you link that to the rationalization that you talk about the present bias? People are afraid. They want the change, but they're afraid of the change.
Logan Ury
Yeah, so let me speak to that. So when it comes to the present bias, I more see it show up as people dating someone, like what I call the prom date, someone who's just not that serious and reliable. And they need to make this mental shift towards dating the life partner, that reliable person that's going to be their spouse, and be by their side for the long term. When you're talking about people who are in a so-so or bad relationship and what's holding them back, I've actually found that there's a different set of cognitive biases that are clouding their judgment. And here are two of them.
Logan Ury
One of them is called the status quo bias. This is our tendency to just keep things as they are, to go on the path of least resistance. And so for these people, when I talk to them and they say, "Should I stay or should I go," I say, "You feel like you're in a car, and you're driving straight ahead. And the road in front of you is staying in the relationship. And getting out of the relationship would be a crazy swerve to the right. And that feels scary, because you're getting off the path. Instead, I want you to think that you are at a T-junction, where you have to make a decision. Going to the right is leaving the relationship, and going to the left is staying in the relationship. And both are a choice." And help them understanding that staying is a choice just as much as leaving is. And so that helps people understand that they might be wasting their own time or wasting their partner's time. That's especially true when it comes to women and fertility. And there's lots of sort of age-based things around that.
Logan Ury
The other thing going on for these people is the concept of loss aversion. And that's the idea that we really feel loss very strongly, and we will do many things in life to avoid a loss. And so they are so focused on, "I will be alone, and if I break up with this person, what will ever happen to me?" And it's much harder for them to see that, yes, they have to climb this mountain to leave the relationship and mourn and have the heartbreak, but what's waiting for them on the other side, it could be a much better relationship. And so helping them visualize that, oftentimes the best way of finding a great relationship is leaving a bad one.
Jack Muskat
And they don't see the opportunity cost, which is what I try to show them as well. I want to get back to your book a bit on the dating apps, because I have to tell you about my own bias, and it's not so much a generational thing. We all use apps for different things, but there's a whole thing called decision architecture, that the way in which you approach an app is the way in which you're going to make your decisions. And you know that because you created those things.
Logan Ury
Yeah, so let me start by saying I also share some of those concerns about dating apps with you, and your listeners should know that I work as the director of relationship science at Hinge, which is actually the fastest growing dating app in Canada. The reason why I work at Hinge, even though I wrote this chapter that is in many ways critical of dating apps, is because Hinge is all about getting people into relationships, and its whole slogan is "Designed to be deleted." It's actually about getting you into relationships.
Logan Ury
So if people want to overcome some of the things that make dating apps hard, here are a few tips for them. So one, is understanding that the point of a dating app is to introduce you to someone, it's not for you to figure out every single thing about them. So my first piece of advice is get to the date as soon as possible. If it's been weeks and you're texting back and forth, I can almost guarantee you that when you meet up, it's just not going to work out. Not because that person's not great or you're not great, but you have built up a fantasy in your head of who they are, and they are not going to match that fantasy. And so get to the date quickly, match on the app, maybe do a video date, see if you like each other, and then really start to see what side of you that person brings out, and focus way more on your interactions with the person. The app is just there to show you who's single and who might be a fit.
Logan Ury
Another thing is to be more open-minded about who you go out with. And so one of my chapters is called, "You Think You Know What You Want, But You're Wrong." And here's the thinking behind that: traditional economics assumes that people are rational and that they have consistent preferences. But in behavioural science, we know that our preferences completely change based on our environment, based on what's around us. And so if you have this idea of "the type," and you think, "I just have to locate a person who is that type," then you have these blinders on. And instead, you should throw out that checklist, be more humble and say, "I might be wrong about the type of person I'm looking for. I'm going to expand my filters, see more people on the app, give more people a chance and see." Maybe you'll be surprised. And so many of the couples I interviewed for the book, they said not only would I not have swiped right or, you know, swiped "yes" on someone on the app, I literally wouldn't have seen them on the app, because my filters and settings would have excluded them for me because of things like height, or age or geography. And so really, the first thing to focus on is the idea that you might be wrong about who will make you happy long term, and you should be more open-minded about who you go out with.
Jack Muskat
Right. Could you maybe say a little bit more about it? Because if people know that they're not going to focus on the superficial factors, or we think they're superficial, what are some of the things in your interviews with couples that were successful that they changed?
Logan Ury
Absolutely, yeah. So there's a chapter about what matters more and less than we think for long-term relationships. And this is basically based on what I have heard that people care about through my matchmaking and dating coaching. And then what I actually know from relationship science is correlated with long-term success. And so here are the things that matter less than we think: looks, money, similar personalities and shared hobbies. And those things matter. And obviously, you know, if you're an Olympic swimmer and you spend all your time swimming, it might be better to date someone who also likes swimming. But most people's hobbies are not dominating their lives. And people just really optimize way too much for these things and get so caught up. "Oh, I'm extroverted and he's introverted, it'll never work." And that those things are just not correlated with long-term success.
Logan Ury
Here are the things that are: kindness, emotional stability, loyalty, having a growth mindset—so someone who sees life as skills that can be developed versus, like, you're either born with it or not. Being able to make hard decisions together. And then finally—and this has become the most important one to me as the research in this grows is: what side of you that person brings out? And these might seem obvious. You might be listening and rolling your eyes and say, "Yeah, I'm not trying to find someone unkind and disloyal." But you say that, but is that what you're actively seeking? And is that what you're actively valuing after you meet someone? And so my goal is to help people shift. And instead of saying, "Oh, wow, I went on a date with this guy, and he has such a interesting job and, you know, his family has this beach house," or whatever else you're focusing on from a resume. And instead say, "Did I feel desirable when I was around him? Did he make me feel interesting? Did he bring out a secure side of me?" That does take work to shift towards that mindset.
Jack Muskat
I think you make a very, very interesting point, and I think it's something I want to just emphasize. As you're going through the list around what we like in people, you know, we want kindness, generosity, love, compassion, but we're really just thinking of ourselves. We want it for us. Which brings me to the questions about the contracts that you created. And maybe you'll tell us more about it, I first looked at it and I said—as many people probably have told you—relationships and long term love is not something that can be captured in a contract. And then I looked at it more carefully, and I think there's a lot there to what you're saying about what people initially see and then how do they operationalize it, and make that something they can talk about.
Logan Ury
Sure, yeah. So a relationship contract is not a legal document, as you said. And it's something where a couple comes together and they do two things. First, they do some introspective work. And on my website, I have the worksheet that you do by yourself. And it's things like: do I want monogamy? What does monogamy mean to me? You know, what do I want my sex life to look like? How often do we want to be seeing each other's friends and families? What are the rituals that we have? It's really just taking a moment by yourself and saying, "What does my ideal relationship look like?" And then you come together and you have this conversation. And it doesn't have to be a negotiation, it's a conversation between two people saying, "What do you want our relationship to be? What's working well, what's not working well?" And this is the critical point: it's a catalyst for an honest conversation about your relationship.
Jack Muskat
Correct.
Logan Ury
That conversation is so much more than any document. You come together, you talk about what's working, what's not, and you put into this contract, things like, these are the things that are going well, we want to work towards this. And then you say, "We will come back and visit this contract in six months or a year or five years." And lots of couples have different versions of this. And some of them are really funny. There's one that I found online where someone says, "We promise not to buy any more IKEA furniture. We are done with this crappy IKEA furniture." And then other ones are really serious, and they talk about we want to be in an open relationship. And these are the dimensions of what an open relationship looks like for us. And the whole point is that those goals and that ambition and those ideas are now captured in this piece of paper. And neither of you is holding the relationship. It's not like one of you is saying, "Please can we talk? Please can we talk?" You know that in six months, or a year or five years, you're going to check in and see how are we doing?
Logan Ury
And why it matters to me and why I think it's important is that it offers the opportunity to course correct. And so for many of us, we get married, we say our vows, and then we're just supposed to have a relationship that works for the next 50 years. And I like to think of it as a toaster. It's like we buy a toaster, we plug it in and we hope that it doesn't get worse over time, we hope it keeps working. But I just don't think the toaster model makes sense when people are being married for so long, people are living longer, people change over time. There's something called the end-of-history illusion, which is the idea that we think that we're always done changing. "Oh, I changed so much from 30 to 40, but I'm done changing." And that's not true. We know that people do change a lot over time. And so why not create a relationship that is meant to evolve and shift and grow as the people in it grow too?
Jack Muskat
Do you see it more like a financial plan? You may start it when you're younger, and then when your assets change or your needs change, you review it? Is this something that you recommend that people review?
Logan Ury
Oh, that's really an interesting point. I hadn't thought about it as a financial plan, but yes, it's anything in your life where you make a goal, you work towards it, and then you come back in and you check, how am I doing towards my goal, or do I want to shift my goal? And that's why it's not a contract that you sign in blood and you put it on your wall, and it's your ketubah and you have it for the rest of your life. It's specifically something where you are meant to check in on it and to make changes. And so yes, the whole idea is that it's adaptable.
Jack Muskat
Yeah. And I think that, you know, just before we conclude—and there's so much to talk about, just if you would leave us with a couple of thoughts that we maybe haven't touched on that you think is important.
Logan Ury
Oh, thank you so much. And yes, there is so much we could talk about, and this has been a great conversation. And so I'll leave your listeners with some homework assignments. And so if you're single and you don't want to be, then the first piece of advice I would give you is to actually do an audit of your behaviour. And I have a quiz on my website, the three dating tendencies quiz. And this is really a good opportunity for you to see what are your dating blind spots, what's holding you back? And really start from what are the patterns that you want to change, and then you can enlist a friend in holding you to that. So it might be you're not picky enough, or you're too picky, or you're the hesitater and you're just not going on dates. And really, you know, we're still in the beginning of 2021, this could be your year. People are not taking the pandemic off from dating. We have seen that in our research at Hinge. And really take a look at your own behaviour, figure out what you want to change and set up some systems that help you survive and thrive.
Logan Ury
Now if you're listening to this and you're in a relationship, my homework assignment for you is what's called bids. It's really investing in bids. And I'm sure many people are familiar with this concept. But it's really what I think is the most powerful research around couples, which comes from the great relationship scientist, John Gottman. And he did this work over four decades, and he found that what separates the relationship masters, the people in really strong relationships, from the relationship disasters, the people in unfulfilling, unhappy, chronically miserable relationships, is this thing called bids. And these are verbal or nonverbal chances to connect. And so his famous example is, you know, the woman stands by the window and says, "Oh, look at the boat passing by." And does her partner say, "Oh, what a great boat." And does he or she come and stand by her? Or does the person say, "Why are you always interrupting me. I'm reading the paper." And so responding to that is called turning towards a bid, and ignoring it or saying something rude, it's called turning away. And what Dr. John Gottman found is that the relationship masters turn towards each other 86 percent of the time, and the relationship disasters turn towards each other only 33 percent of the time. And so the takeaway there is that relationships are not about grand gestures or your annual trip to the Caribbean, relationships are about doing small things every day that really show your partner that you care. And so today, what is one thing that you can do to bid for your partner's attention, and what is one way that you can turn towards your partner's bid to connect?
Jack Muskat
Okay. The book is How to Not Die Alone with Logan Ury. Available at Amazon and other outlets. And you want to tell us your contact information?
Logan Ury
Oh, sure, yeah. People can follow me on social media @loganury, and they can check out that quiz on my website. But yes, I'm excited for people to get their hands on the book. You know, it launched today, and they should let me know through social media what they think and send me any questions they have.
Jack Muskat
Take care.
Logan Ury
Thanks a lot.
Christopher Shulgan
That's it for this episode of Eat Move Think. That was Medcan psychology team lead Dr. Jack Muskat in conversation with author and dating coach Logan Ury.
Christopher Shulgan
We post highlights and the episode transcript at eatmovethinkpodcast.com, including links to buy Logan Ury's book, How to Not Die Alone.
Christopher Shulgan
Eat Move Think is produced by Ghost Bureau. Senior producer is Russell Gragg. Editorial and social media support from Emily Mannella, Tiffany Lewis and Chantel Guertin.
Christopher Shulgan
Remember to rate and subscribe to Eat Move Think on your favourite podcast platform. Follow Shaun on Twitter and Instagram @Shauncfrancis—that's Shaun with a U—and Medcan @medcanlivewell. We'll be back soon with a new episode examining the latest in health and wellness.