Ep. 26: Relationship Tips and “Sex with Dr. Jess”

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The pandemic forced many couples to spend more time together than ever before—and anecdotal evidence suggests some relationships are suffering as a result. Guest host Dr. Gina Di Giulio, Medcan’s Director of Mental Health, spoke with sexologist Jessica O’Reilly of “Sex with Dr. Jess” fame, for some fresh, easy-to-follow tips on how to renew intimacy and return some romance to your relationship.

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Please subscribe and rate us on your favourite podcast platform. Eat Move Think host Shaun Francis is Medcan’s CEO and chair. Follow him on Twitter @shauncfrancis. Connect with him on LinkedIn. And follow him on Instagram @shauncfrancis. Eat Move Think is produced by Ghost Bureau.


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Relationship Tips and “Sex with Dr. Jess” final web transcript

CHRIS SHULGAN

Welcome to the latest episode of Eat Move Think. I'm executive producer Christopher Shulgan. This week we explore how human relationships have been affected by the pandemic, specifically romantic ties with our partners. Sitting in for Shaun Francis is our stand-in host, the clinical psychologist Dr. Gina Di Giulio, Medcan’s director of mental health. Our guest this week is Jessica O’Reilly, a sexologist who you’ve probably seen during one of her countless media appearances on such TV shows as The Marilyn Denis Show and Playboy TV’s Swing. She’s also the host of The @Sexwithdrjess podcast, and maintains a thriving social media presence.

CHRIS

Gina and Jess are friends, and so what follows is a refreshingly grounded conversation that brings in elements of their own lives and the lives of the people who seek out their advice. They talk about O’Reilly’s new book, and wrap up their conversation with a series of insightful yet easy-to-follow tips on how to improve relationships with loved ones—even in the age of social distancing.

CHRIS

One final note: This episode features frank conversation about romance, relationships and sexuality and isn’t appropriate for children. If you have a car full of kids and you're looking for something to listen to on the way up to the cottage, or if you’re at all uncomfortable with adult content, I’d suggest skipping this episode. Now here’s Gina’s conversation with Jess O’Reilly.

DR. GINA DI GIULIO

Hi. Welcome, everyone. I have the pleasure today of interviewing Dr. Jessica O'Reilly. She is incredibly passionate about training in sexual health, and she’s volunteered in countless schools and universities to bring better sex and relationship education to students. And she is also a prolific author and television personality who has facilitated workshops and corporate retreats all over the world, literally. Jess—normally I have to send Jess a message and say, "Where in the world is Jess today?" And she tells me some fabulous location she’s at. But I guess, silver lining selfishly for me, she’s now at home, so I get to see more of her. But welcome Jess, it's so nice to see you.

DR. JESSICA O'REILLY

Hey, hey! How's it going? Yeah, I'm in the exciting, exotic location of my home podcast studio. And later today I'll be travelling down to my living room couch.

DR. DI GIULIO

Exciting times, you know? But we do what we can these days. But let me start off by just asking you, how are you doing? How have you been the past few months?

DR. JESS

You know, I'm okay. I feel exhausted all the time, and I feel really conflicted because I know that I'm super lucky to be home and healthy. And there are, you know, not many better places to be than the City of Toronto in my own home. But also, you know, there's a big sense of loss because my business is not what it used to be. I mean, we're still fine financially but, you know, I used to fly off every week to some exciting location and work with a different group. And that was my job, and that's what I had created for myself. So yeah, I feel conflicted between, you know, feeling really grateful but also feeling really frustrated. I've been talking about having a covitude. Like my bad attitude.

DR. DI GIULIO

A covitude?

DR. JESS

But, you know, I am home with my husband Brandon. And I know that most people are kind of at each other's throats. But I think because I'm usually on the road, I actually am just loving having him by my side. Not 24/7, but every single night. It feels so good.

DR. DI GIULIO

Yeah. This must be the longest that you've actually seen him for and spent together in a long while.

DR. JESS

Yeah. Probably, like, in a decade or something like that. But I don't know. It's so nice. And he's—I mean, you know Brandon, Gina. But he's just really easygoing, and I'm a real pain in the butt. And so we balance each other out. I said to him the other day, I'm like, "There must be some really annoying things I do. What can I do to annoy you less?"

DR. DI GIULIO

Well, I do know Brandon, and I also know just how much he adores you. So I'm sure he is just loving having you around.

DR. JESS

That's what he says. But he's gonna—I mean, he's gonna reach reach his capacity soon. But we still try and spend time apart, you know? Because I'm more social. So I'll go to the park and just kind of throw the Frisbee or throw the football. Or I'll have a friend over just outside to have a glass of wine, and he pops out and he pops in. And so, you know, we call it he does his Houdini, where he comes and says hi to us for a few minutes and then he just leaves the social gathering. So we still have plenty of time apart, but it's just so nice to go to bed with him every night and wake up to him in the morning. And, you know, we're going on, like, 19 years. No, I don't know. It's more than 19 years of living together. It's been forever. We were kids when we moved in together.

DR. DI GIULIO

You were. And you've made it. People can make it through COVID, right, unscathed relatively so at least, they can make it through anything. So what are some of the things that you and Brandon are doing just to, you know, maintain the health of your relationship?

DR. JESS

That's a good question. So in the beginning when we came home on March 16, because the government ordered us to ...

DR. DI GIULIO

At least you got to leave. I was just about to step out the door and then the government said, "No, you don't. You're not going anywhere."

DR. JESS

Oh, my goodness. Well, it's good that you stayed because, you know, we were in Florida and we have a spot down there. So I said to him, "Maybe we should just ride it out down here. It's not cold." But then we were hearing about people hoarding ammunition all around our condo and I was like, "You know what? I'm gonna go back to the place where people are hoarding toilet paper instead of ammunition." And of course, I don't think, you know, I anticipated going on this long. And of course, we're still not out of the woods. So I'm very happy that we came home.

DR. JESS

So what are we doing? In the beginning, we were checking in with each other more. And we've started doing that again in the last few weeks. Not as regularly, because we have, you know, adapted to the new routine. We are travelling on the weekends just, you know, road trips, and I'm really, really loving that. And we're still very, very distanced. Like, we don't really have anyone in our bubble. So we're only eating outside, and we have been staying in hotels, but we just take the stairs. So we've never even been really in a room with other people since this has happened. I think he's gone out. He's had to meet a couple clients maybe three times over the last few months. And he said he, like, waits out on the balcony while they're looking at the property because he's in real estate. And I went to set one day to shoot. I was shooting a kind of a shopping channel show in the adult field, but it was very, very distanced and all the crew wore masks and, you know, I still was at least probably 10 feet away from everybody. So yeah, the weekend trips are really helping.

DR. DI GIULIO

Good. Yeah, I follow you on Instagram and I live vicariously through you. Like, my three year old kind of keeps me tethered to my home, so thank you. I've been living vicariously through you and Brandon just looking at the beautiful places you've been going to. So thank you for that. But aside from you and Brandon, I guess I'm curious to know, like, what have you been hearing in terms of just relationships in general? Like, how has COVID changed things for people?

DR. JESS

Well, we've seen a number of trends develop, and they're kind of all over the board. There doesn't seem to see to be any real consistency, but one of the things we're seeing is turbo relationships. So people who either decided to move in together and quarantine together, or people who have felt the relationship intensify because of the COVID situation. And many of them are reporting that they're more committed than ever. They're more certain than ever. They know that they want to spend the rest of their lives or the long term with this person. Now, of course, nobody knows, but they have the feeling that they can do this, that they can do this for the long haul.

DR. JESS

We also see a significant percentage of people, around two-thirds reporting that they feel closer than ever to their partner. So that's really interesting. We are hearing on the sexual side that people are less interested in sex—except for single people. The economy of scarcity means that they're just, like, yearning for sex. Sex toy sales are actually through the roof. Two of the brands that I work with, Womanizer and We-Vibe, have been reporting these double digit gains over projected sales, and that seems to be driven by the singles market and then couples who are bored together looking for something to do.

DR. JESS

But then there's the flipside, because two-thirds might sound like a significant number but, you know, ultimately that still leaves a grand chunk of us, many, many, many millions who are feeling more frustrated with our partner, who are feeling more disconnected, who are feeling like we just can't take any more time with this person, overhearing their damn zoom calls, being in each other's faces. Certainly, I think people with kids are disproportionately affected, potentially adversely, because the burden of responsibility tends to fall on one person more than the other and that creates resentment and frustration, and we're all just trying to survive. And then I think there's this pressure also to thrive during this time, to pivot our businesses, to pivot our lifestyles. And I think—I mean, I'm sure you're telling your clients, right now is a time just to survive, not to thrive. Like, we may not make our best work. We're not all baking bread. We're not all breaking bread with the people we love either. I don't know. How are you doing?

DR. DI GIULIO

How am I doing? You know, taking it one day at a time, right? So the first few months of this pandemic, I was working from home. You know Henry, I have a three year old. And Carl who's a teacher was also working from home and doing the online teaching thing, and both of us are working from home virtually. We've got this three year old, so truly Jess, and it still is to some degree, we just take it one day at a time. I mean, we both know just how important communication is in relationships but, you know, never more has it been important than now, right?

DR. DI GIULIO

So him and I have almost on the daily almost had to negotiate, "Okay, who's going to do what today?" And "Okay, Henry. You know, I dropped him off at daycare this morning. Who's going to pick him up?" Like, every day is just almost like a renegotiation of what's the day sort of kind of going to look like and who's going to do what? You know I'm like you. I'm a little bit more social than my partner. So it's been really important for me, you know, to continue to see some people safely—parks, patios, what have you, and sort of communicating to him, reminding him just how important that is to me. And, you know, then we've had to negotiate okay, well, who's going to take care of, you know, the kid, and ensuring that we still leave room for time and space for us to do our own individual things, right? Just to kind of help stave off the boredom or irritability or what have you. And vice versa for him, you know? So yeah, communication has been just so key through this. And it's something that I recommend to all of my clients, right? Communicate, communicate, communicate. Never assume that your partner should, you know, know what you want or need during this time. I think that's a big mistake that people make or a common one.

DR. JESS

I definitely like that day by day, because I think that we sometimes try and make a plan in advance. And with things changing every single day, not just like the circumstances around COVID, but all of, like, our emotional needs because we're dealing with grief and we're dealing with exhaustion and we're dealing with huge amounts of disruption. I like the idea that it's every morning. So I might have said last night that I'd do this, but screw it. I'm just not up for it.

DR. DI GIULIO

Right. Not today. It's just not happening. And I love what you said, you know, that piece around just being kind to yourself, right? I agree. We hear— I don't know. There's so much pressure on social media, right? Like, take this time to be your best self and you're gonna emerge from this like a superhuman. I'm like, "What?" I'll be lucky if I emerge from this, you know, with still, like, hair on my head left. So taking it day by day, right? That self-compassion is so important. But, you know, when you—that self compassion also goes a long way in terms of also being kinder to your partner, right? We know that. When people are kinder to themselves, when they have that self-love, self-empathy, they can also more readily be that way for other people.

DR. JESS

Absolutely, yeah. And we need to adjust our expectations. You know, happiness really occurs when your expectations are met or exceeded, and so you can't necessarily adjust the outcome but you can adjust those expectations. And yeah, I know that I put too much pressure on myself. I know that, you know, I can be focused especially too much in business, on growth and, you know, a certain measure of success. And right now I'm really learning to get knocked down a number of pegs and know that, you know, like, the way that I—or the places from which I derived satisfaction and fulfillment are no longer available to me, right? Like, I loved just hopping on a plane over to Portugal and giving a speech, and then hopping over to Romania. And like I said, like, my big travel plans are to my living room and my home office and up to my bedroom. And so it's a really big shift. And I'm moody. Are you finding yourself moody?

DR. DI GIULIO

Oh yes, girl. Absolutely. Absolutely. I tell you, I come to the office sometimes just to get away, you know? But all this is normal, too. I think we have to remind our listeners of as well, right? It doesn't mean anything. Irritability, even in relationships right now, it's normal. We're all cooped up together. It's an unusual situation. But I think it's important to remind people that everything that they're feeling is normal and is okay. And it's also not indicative of the health necessarily of the relationship. You know, feeling irritable towards your partner, for example, is not a red flag, it doesn't mean that, you know, you're not gonna make it, you're gonna break up. It's really more reflective of the situation rather than of the relationship itself.

DR. JESS

Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, I think that this is the time to work on the things that you can control. I think what I'm seeing with some couples—and you probably know this—there's people who walk into your practice and say, "This is what I need from my partner. My partner needs to change this, my partner needs to do that." And then there are the people who walk in and say, "You know what? Here's what I can do better. Here's how I can think differently. Here's how I can behave differently. Here's how I can communicate differently." And so if we can not look at our partners, you know, for sources of deficits in the relationship and start looking at ourselves. I always ask people to write lists. So what is it you want? What can you do to get what you want? And not until you have, like, a dozen things on your list can we even begin to make the list of requests of your partner. But I am seeing—and you may be seeing this—partners that are really checking in with the quality of their relationships, because we can no longer be distracted by vacations or work trips or even your children. Now we're saying, okay, this is where our connection's at, and if it's not so good, it's time to invest in it a little bit. Because relationships don't just work out, right? Just like your career doesn't just work out. You have to put in the time and the effort. And I'm seeing some couples opt to do so right now. And that makes me really optimistic.

DR. DI GIULIO

Yeah, that's really hopeful. That's amazing. You mentioned earlier that some couples—or desire for sex has decreased for the most part. People deal with stress differently, right? We know that, for example, in times of stress, some people will eat more, other people will eat less, right? I imagine that sort of desire for sex is the same, right? In times of stress, some people will maybe want it more as a way to release or what have you, and some people will want it less. So what advice do you have where we see that desire discrepancy in couples? And how do you navigate that?

DR. JESS

Well, first and foremost, I think we have to have a really formal discussion about sexual frequency. And this is because we tend to overestimate or underestimate how often our partner wants it based on our own baseline. So if you tend to want sex more often than your partner, you tend to underestimate how often they actually want to have it, because it feels like they're always saying, "No, no, no." Whereas, if you want sex less often than your partner, you tend to overestimate how often they want it because it feels like they're always pawing at you for sex. How about now? How about now? Five minutes? How about now?

DR. JESS

And so I encourage people to have a hard numbers conversation. And so there are three areas where I like to begin with clients in terms of sexual communication, and those are the three Fs. And they are feelings, frequency and fantasy. So if we talk about frequency, I'll actually ask them to take a piece of paper and write down on that piece of paper, how often you'd like to be having sex. And I just want to emphasize that, of course, sex means different things to different people. So that's a separate conversation. But if we're just on frequency, how often do you want it? Do you want it once a week? Once a month? Three times a week? Once a fiscal year? How often would you like to be having sex? And then you kind of draw a line on the paper. And beneath your number, you write down how often you perceive your partner to want sex. Do they want it once a day? Once with every meal? Once a quarter? How often do they want it? And then you kind of compare papers and have a conversation. And what we find is that people are often more aligned than they realize, but they're not actually talking in hard numbers. Now if I want it five times a week and my partner wants it once a week, that doesn't mean we meet exactly at 2.5 times a week. If there was a 0.5, I'd take it, though. It's like, that's my orgasm.

DR. DI GIULIO

Bonus.

DR. JESS

Bonus, bonus. Yeah, I'm not doing anything. I'm just sitting there. But it is about finding some sort of middle ground. So that means that sometimes you have to take care of yourself. And then the other piece is, with this conversation comes a discussion of sexual accelerants and sexual inhibitors. What are the things that potentially put me in the mood for sex? And what are the things that put me out of the mood for sex? And we actually make a list of those things so we can better understand ourselves as well as our partners. So, like, you mentioned stress for some people creates a desire for sex because sex is a release. For other people, sex is the source of stress. So if you can better understand the specifics and the nuances of what puts your partner in the mood, you're more likely to find that middle ground.

DR. JESS

Now when one partner wants it more than the other, the higher-desire partner has a tendency to blame and pathologize the lower-desire partner as though, you know, it's their job to come up or something like that. But the reality is ...

DR. DI GIULIO

Or something's wrong with them.

DR. JESS

Exactly. You can want sex every day and be perfectly healthy, and you cannot want sex at all and also be perfectly healthy. There are folks who have no interest in sex. There are people who identify as asexual. Nothing is wrong with them. This is a sexual orientation. But we need to be honest about what we want and open to conversations because, you know, if I decide after 19 years of marriage today that I never want sex again, I have every right to say I don't want sex. My partner's not entitled to sex with me. However, I don't have a right to necessarily limit their sexual desires. And maybe monogamy is not going to work for us if I have decided that I no longer want sex or want to put an effort into our sex lives.

DR. JESS

We see this all the time. We see this one year, 10 years, 25 years into marriage, people splitting up because they refuse to invest in their sex life. They refuse to have uncomfortable conversations, which is really a short-term pain for that long-term growth. And so you have the conversation around how often you want it, what puts you in the mood, what doesn't put you in the mood, and then I think one of the most important realizations for people is to understand that if you wait for sexual desire to arise spontaneously, you may never have sex. If you wait until you're in the mood, you're probably never going to get in the mood. But if you realize that you actually have to put effort in to get in the mood, just like going to the gym. You know, I would never wake up on a cold winter morning and think, "Oh, I feel like, you know, getting my stuff together and going to the gym." But if you go to the gym, usually it feels good. Usually you feel really good about it.

DR. JESS

So similarly with sex, if you expect it to happen spontaneously after a hard day of work, after dealing with the kids, after putting them to bed, after taking a phone call about drama from your friends or your family or your in-laws, and you think that you're going to hop into bed and think, "Oh yeah man, that put me in the mood for sex," that's unrealistic. But if you have that same day, and you are aware of what puts you in the mood, maybe it's a certain type of touch or kissing or holding or fantasizing or reading or watching something, then you can create the potential for desire. So sometimes, if your partner's in the mood for sex and you're not, you're just going to simply say, "Nah, man. I'm not in the mood tonight. I'm going to bed." Fair enough. But other times, would you be open to saying, "No, I'm not in the mood, but let me see what I can do to get myself in the mood," or "Here's how you can help to get me in the mood," right? And I don't like to go straight to here's how you can put me in the mood because again, we cannot put the onus of responsibility of sexual initiation on one partner all the time. Sure, you can do that for your partner sometimes, but it is not always the higher-desire partner's job to get the lower-desire partner in the mood. So as you can tell, this is, you know, quite a complex conversation. It's not a one-shot deal. It's not, you know, "Oh, we'll talk to a therapist about this once and it's one and done and our problems will be solved." This is cultivating a long-term commitment for something that you say you really care about, and it takes ongoing effort. Now you don't have to care about sex. As I said, if you're not into sex, that's fine, but you better be honest with your partner, and you cannot necessarily say to them, "Well, I'm no longer into sex. You're married to me, therefore you are never again going to have sex." Like, that's a pretty big conversation. And a pretty big, I think, revelation, especially if you lead them to believe over the years and while you were dating that you did want sex.

DR. DI GIULIO

Right, right. We see this a lot in couples, for sure, over time.

DR. JESS

And you're allowed to lose interest, of course. And something might be wrong. If you've lost interest all of a sudden—not wrong, but it may be something that you can address, or it might just be part of who you are. That's also okay. Many people don't realize that they're asexual until, you know, later in life because they've never been given the language or permission to be who they are. Now to clarify, there are different ways in which asexuals live. So some people who are asexual may still decide to have sex because they like the physical connection. Asexual usually refers to not experiencing sexual attraction to people. That doesn't mean that they never want to have sex. Some people want to abstain from sex. Some people don't. And actually, there's a good website to check out if this is something that interests you. It's asexuality.org, and there are a lot of resources there because we can barely scratch the surface on this.

DR. JESS

And of course, that's only one reason for not wanting sex. Some people don't want sex because the relationship quality is poor. Some people don't want sex because they're exhausted from doing an unfair or an uneven amount of unpaid labour around the house. Some people don't want sex because honestly, it's not that good. So sometimes people will come to me and say or complain, "Oh, my partner never wants sex. They're never in the mood." And I ask them what the sex looks like. And we kind of have to get to the point where we better understand well, does it actually feel good for them? Is it a release? Is it pleasurable? Does it make them feel close to you? Does it feel good in their body, in their mind, in their spirit, if that's what's important to them? And so that's why, you know, I have people talk about— and this is such a long conversation, I'm sorry, but their sexual values. I just wrote a book recently called The Ultimate Guide to Seduction and Foreplay. But really, it's not about seduction and foreplay. It's about all the theoretical underpinnings of sex, and what makes sex important to you. And there are a number—you know, hundreds of exercises and prompts in the book to help you understand, like, what does sex mean to you? What are the emotions elements, physical elements, spiritual elements, relational elements, practical elements that matter to you? These questions just begin to scratch the surface so that you can better understand your own needs. And if you want a satisfying sex life, we need to delve into these considerations. And most of us never have.

DR. JESS

We learn about sex, primarily from rom-coms and porn, which are not sources of education. And then we wonder why we've lost interest in sex. And so I really encourage people to dig a little bit deeper. Consider your sexual values. Think about the messages you received about sex growing up, think about what portions you want to retain, what portions you want to relieve yourself of so that you can let go of some of the perhaps sexual shame. This is actual effort. I used to use the word "work." People don't like the word "work," but I think because I like my work, I don't mind using the word work. But it actually takes effort, and when you put in that effort, you can have the hottest sex life 5, 10, 15, 20, 30, 40 years into a relationship.

DR. DI GIULIO

Right. That's fantastic advice, Jess. It's so—sex is so complicated.

DR. JESS

It really is. And we're only we're only talking about the first F here.

DR. DI GIULIO

Right. That's just the first, right? There's these other two. This is why you have a PhD in sexology. I mean, you're the expert. I could talk to you all day about this. But you're right. Knowing yourself, for sure. And I guess that, you know, that's the silver lining of this pandemic, right? It kind of gives you more time and space to really think about yourself and what's important to you wants, needs, etc. Kind of, like, get to know yourself better, so to speak, during this time, I think is really important. And yeah, and then gets back to communicating, communicating your needs, wants, desires to your partner is so important. Often so many people don't do that. And you're right, they're really quick to jump in, assign blame to their partner for their own dissatisfaction.

DR. JESS

But they don't even know what they want, right? We have to figure out what it is we want, either before or as we communicate our needs, right? Like, people will tell me they're unhappy with something, but they don't know what they want. And that's where, you know, as you said, the assignment of blame comes in. And when you think about getting to know yourself, or sitting with yourself, that's what's really scary about this time for many people is that we're no longer moving. Like, we're sitting still in the water. And that can be really uncomfortable.

DR. DI GIULIO

It can. I think that's why we've seen a dramatic rise in anxiety, right? Because it's hard. It's a hard thing for many people to do, just to sit with your thoughts and feelings, right? And so many of us, especially, you know, we're in a busy city like Toronto, so much of what we do during the day is really a distraction from how we're feeling, how we're thinking. And now that we've had many of these distractions removed, you're right. I mean, what are you left with? Well, yourself, and looking in the mirror. And sometimes that can be a really scary thing.

DR. JESS

And with feelings, I always want to remind people because we're feeling so much, we don't even have to analyze them all the time. We don't have to understand them. I wish we could get people to just go ahead and feel what you're feeling. Like, go ahead and feel it with permission and almost without judgment. Like, if you're feeling scared, go ahead and feel scared. If you're feeling overwhelmed, so be it. I think a lot of us are exhausted because we're hyper-vigilant, right? Every step you take on the street, you're being vigilant of who's around you, what's happening around you. Every time you reach for your phone, you know, you're you're afraid for the numbers, for the outbreaks. I mean, many of us have family in some of the highly-affected regions. And so this hyper-vigilance, dear God, we're so tired emotionally by the end of the day, and that's why so many of us have lost interest in sex.

DR. DI GIULIO

Sure. Sure. We're in this kind of state of, you know, alarm, perpetually, so to speak, and we're not designed to be in that state long-term, we're really not before it starts to take a toll on our physical and mental health.

DR. JESS

Absolutely.

DR. DI GIULIO

You know, you mentioned early, a common scenario now where you have, let's say, you know, a couple or two partners working from home, maybe throw in a couple of kids, maybe, you know, some elderly parents. So everybody living under the same roof. A dog, a cat, a fish, right? How do you keep the romance alive? Like, how do you navigate intimacy when, you know, at any given moment anyone can, like, bust through your door? Like, with so many people living together, what's your advice in terms of maintaining and keeping intimacy alive between partners?

DR. JESS

Well, first and foremost, thank goodness for the dog, because the dog is the one, like, cooling us off, lowering our blood pressure. It's the humans and those cats that can stress us out. So one, like, I'm trying to recommend some really manageable and actionable options for people right now. So one thing I'm suggesting is that we begin our day with 60 seconds of physical connection. So reframing the idea of intimacy, because I think we often conflate intimacy with sex, and it certainly does not need to be sexual. Some intimacy can be sexual and other forms of intimacy are not. So can you begin your day with one minute of just either breathing together, or holding one another, or kissing with no pressure, no expectation, and see how your day changes. If you invest 60 seconds at the beginning of the day just to be close to one another. You don't have to talk. Again, this isn't to lead into sex with, like, a reach-around or a poke from behind. This is just to be close to your partner.

DR. JESS

One thing I do is I—because I love my partner, okay? So I'm, like, crazy about Brandon. I feel like a teenager, where I feel like our love is special. And of course, you know, I'm in the field so I'm always analyzing that. But I just feel like this relationship is so incredible, and he's such an incredible person. And at the same time, I'm a hothead okay? And so I can fly off the handle and, you know, in one second I love you and the next minute I'm like, "Get out of my house!" I don't say it out loud, but I think it.

DR. DI GIULIO

It's passion, Jess.

DR. JESS

It's passion. And yeah, it's cultural for me too, right? Like, I'm Chinese Jamaican, like, it's just in my blood. And so one thing I do is I put my head on his chest and listen to his heartbeat just for, like, 30 to 60 seconds in the morning. And there's something unbelievably grounding and gratitude-inducing about hearing this little muscle that keeps the most important part of my life.

DR. DI GIULIO

That's really lovely.

DR. JESS

It's so nice, honestly. And I notice the difference on the days that I do it. So I'm asking for 60 seconds in the morning from people. If you can do that, just see how it changes. Try it for five days. Push through. I know people want, you know, a magic pill but that's not what it takes in relationships over the course of a lifetime. So 60 seconds in the morning. And then can you do a 60-second favour for your partner at some point before, let's say, 2:00 pm? Can you go behind them while they're on a Zoom call—well, not with video—and massage their shoulders? Can you bring them a drink when they're really, really busy throughout the day? Can you come to their computer and clean their screen? Anything to kind of surprise them can positively affect the serotonin levels and make them feel special. And so I call this dollar-cost average, investing in relationships. So rather than investing with grand gestures once a year on their anniversary or on their birthday, can you dedicate a minute a day to doing something to surprise or make your partner feel special?

DR. JESS

And again, I see this really pay off with people who bother to invest in thoughtfulness and kindness. It is one minute a day. If you don't have a minute a day, if you can't prioritize this, you just don't want to prioritize your relationship. Let's be honest. So you can make excuses or you can make change, but you can't generally make both. And if at the end of the day, you've forgotten about your 60-second favour, take their hand and just give them a 60-second hand massage or a 60-second forehead massage. Or, you know, whatever it is they like. Like for me, I love the sound of his voice. There's something really soothing and relaxing about his voice. So I'm like, just tell me a story or read, like, three lines from a story, and all of a sudden, like, my heart rate slows, my blood pressures slows, I feel so much more relaxed. It helps to assuage any anxiety I'm having. So you've got to figure out what it is for you. But a minute in the morning and a minute during the day, and see if that shifts the way you connect. I know that people want to hear, like, here's a toy, here's some lube, jump into the sack, lock the door. Yeah, of course you can do those things. But if you don't invest in the foundation of the relationship, the sex is not going to work, right? The sex is usually not going to work out.

DR. DI GIULIO

I talk to my clients about this all the time. Like, if you want to work on— you know, sex— working on sex in the bedroom, it really starts by working on the intimacy outside of the bedroom, right? Without that, I mean really, you don't have much. So I love that. But yeah, so you started to talk about some advice or some tips that you would give your couples that you work with in terms of spicing up romance or intimacy during this time. So what are some other ideas or some other tips, maybe you and I can kind of brainstorm together, so some other tips that we can leave our listeners with in terms of spicing up romance and love and intimacy during COVID.

DR. JESS

You know, sometimes we'll just kind of change the limitation. So one thing is, for example, like, banning sex from the bedroom for a week. So you have to do it in the shower. Or even just banning it from the bed. So you have to do it on the ground or get creative with a chair.

DR. DI GIULIO

Changing it up.

DR. JESS

Yeah. Anything that makes you feel uncomfortable can kind of reinvigorate the feelings you had in the beginning because, you know, you felt those butterflies in the beginning, you felt that you'd found the one or you were in love, but really, that's just your digestive tract and your anal sphincter responding to nerves, responding to the fear of rejection. So, you know, one of the mistakes—and you see this I'm sure all the time—that we make in Western culture around relationships is that we become too focused on comfort and predictability and you know, the love. And of course we need love and comfort and some predictability, but we also need a sense of risk. So we need to do things that feel uncomfortable. You know, if you're in Toronto, there is a nude beach. You can go down and try tanning topless or tanning nude or just doing something that pushes you a little bit out of your comfort zone.

DR. JESS

I mean, I know that this is too racy for some people. A toy might be, you know, more your speed. So you don't have to do it all. I would suggest even that you start having some of these conversations. You know, ask your partner a question like, you know, what was the first thing you remember learning about sex growing up, right? Or what did your parents teach you? What did your friends teach you? When was the first time you saw sex depicted that you can remember? Those types of conversations that are really about learning from one another can actually lead to a more exciting connection. I have all these different exercises. Actually, I have a podcast as well. On my podcast, Brandon and I go through some of these exercises together, like the passion interview, which actually has nothing to do with sex. It has to do with the things that excite you in life, and having those conversations, because the death of passion and sexual desire in relationships often occurs when your conversation becomes reduced to three things: your work, your kids and your schedules. If that's all we talk about, it's not that exciting. That's why I give people the passion interview. I have an intimacy interview, a vulnerability interview. And just trying some of these questions with your partner can really change the way you look at them. You stop looking at them just as the person who, I don't know, doesn't rinse their mug out when they're done with it, or the person who talks too loud on their Zoom calls. Or, like, the annoying person at the end of a meeting who's like—because now we're seeing into their little things that would be pet peeves, the annoying person who's like, "Oh, just one more thing," at the end of a meeting, you stop seeing them like that and you start hearing about their dreams and their philosophies and their regrets and their desires. And these conversations can lead to more passion in relationships, I think, even more effectively than any, you know, toy or trick or technique.

DR. DI GIULIO

Right. I love that. I love the idea of stepping outside of your comfort zone and doing something different. You know, you can have that injection of adrenaline again and excitement that is so important, right? And especially now where so many people are reporting feeling bored, I think that's really important. And the idea of almost—that's kind of what I do with my clients. I challenge them to go on a date or spend some time together, and not talk about the boring banal topics like work and kids. And sometimes when I make that suggestion, people look at me and are like, "What? I can't talk about my kids? Well, what the heck are we going to talk about?" Right? And it's like, well, you're gonna have to figure that out. Because if all you can do is talk about work and kids then we have a problem. So I love, love that advice. I love the idea of taking on something new together. Especially something that maybe is physical, like exercising together or, you know, doing something outside of the home now that we're spending so much time at home, right? What do they say? Couples who work out together have sex? Have more sex?

DR. JESS

Yeah. I mean, people who exercise in general have more satisfying sex lives. And go do stuff on your own. Spend time apart.

DR. DI GIULIO

For sure.

DR. JESS

You know, as we prepare for the winter, which, you know, fingers crossed, we get a vaccine or something before that. Oh, Lord.

DR. DI GIULIO

Right. Right.

DR. JESS

But go—why do you have to take all your walks together? Why do you have to do everything together? You are not going to be as attracted to someone that you see all day long.

DR. DI GIULIO

No. I mean, there's a reason why they say absence makes the heart grow fonder, right? You have to miss your partner. That is so important.

DR. JESS

Absolutely.

DR. DI GIULIO

So doing things apart, I love that. Anything else that you would recommend just to our listeners? Like, what's final parting words, if you can?

DR. JESS

Well, I would say that the big thing is, think about how you can initiate sex. What are you willing to do to seduce your partner? And how can you just be more seductive generally throughout the day? How can you eroticize your daily interactions, because you're not a light switch. You don't go from talking about your kid's bowel movements to being like, "Oh, hi! How are you?" No, that's not how the brain and body work for most people, okay? Of course, there are exceptions. So how can you eroticize your daily interactions? How can you complain less? How can you criticize less? How can you not complain about your body? Like, you want to be revolutionary in your life and your relationship. Stop criticizing and complaining about your own body. It's not sexy. How can you change your greetings and goodbyes and bring good, exciting energy to the relationship? I always tell people, even if they're just going into the office, the home office to take a phone call, can you kiss them goodbye like you used to? Can you slip them some tongue? Can you be as excited as a dog when you see them? Show some enthusiasm.

DR. JESS

And then the biggest thing, the absolute biggest thing especially now, is to pay attention to techno-ference. How is technology detracting from presence, mindfulness and connection? We have a wealth of research on the fact that technology when abused—not technology because it exists, but technology because of human use, interferes with connection, with trust, with cooperation, with attraction. So you should have tech-free zones. And so these are Medcan listeners. Many people will say, "Oh well, I keep my phone in the bedroom because it's my alarm clock." So I'm going to suggest that you save up all of your dollars and buy a separate alarm clock. You have the funds.

DR. DI GIULIO

You know, it's not actually that expensive. You can get them at the dollar store.

DR. JESS

Yeah. I mean, if you want one, I'll send you one, okay? If that's where we're at. But for real, take that phone out of the bedroom. We do not need any more data than we have to know that when you are scrolling through your feed, reading your emails, looking at pictures, when a human is next to you, you are conveying the message that whatever is on that phone is more exciting, appealing, attractive, important, than that person next to you. And that's the message you're sending. You really want to change your relationship? You can ignore the rest of it, change the way you use technology.

DR. DI GIULIO

Right. I love that. That is such an important reminder. Thanks for that.

DR. JESS

It's hard.

DR. DI GIULIO

It is hard. It's hard to follow that advice myself. But it's so important.

DR. JESS

Did I tell you, like, our bedroom's on the third floor. and I remember when we set the rule years ago that we wouldn't take phone into the bedroom. And on the first few nights, the phone was at the top stair. Like, God forbid, right?

DR. DI GIULIO

As close as possible.

DR. JESS

Yeah. And I remember jokingly, because it was so funny and ridiculous, moving it halfway—moving the phones halfway down the step.

DR. DI GIULIO

Literally baby steps.

DR. JESS

And now the phone is always either in the office or on the main floor. And it's a life changer. It's a life changer for your sleep, it's a life changer for how you feel about yourself. Of course, I want to wake up to my emails in the morning. Of course it wakes me up, right? Like, rather than having to actually naturally let my body wake up, of course, I want to just reach for my phone and start reading because that perks me right up. That's a rush of adrenaline. But I know it's not good for me. And it's definitely not good for my relationship or my sex life.

DR. DI GIULIO

Right. And especially now Jess, you know, with all the sort of negative news, right? That's all you read about. You pop your phone on, it's the latest numbers, the deaths, what have you. Yeah, nobody needs to bring that into the bedroom, so to speak. So I love that advice. Thank you for that. So Jess, I've heard a lot of stats or talks around, you know, the impact of COVID on relationships, and what this is going to mean in terms of the future of relationships. So, you know, this pandemic, does this mean, I don't know. Are we going to see more babies? Are we going to have, like, COVID babies, you know, nine months from now? Or are we going to see a surge in separation and divorce cases? What are your thoughts on that?

DR. JESS

In terms of more babies, I'm not so sure that we're going to see a baby boom, because unlike in previous historical events like this, we have reproductive technology, we have access to birth control, especially in the West, of course. And in terms of divorces, I'm not so concerned about divorces. What I'm seeing is an uptick in engagements. People are saying, "Hey, we can live through this. I want to mate for life." I'm seeing more and more couples get engaged during COVID, either because they moved in together or because they just feel more intensely in love because this is an intense time. And so I think this is exciting. I think no extra babies, no extra divorces, but we may see more weddings and more marriages.

DR. JESS

And my hope is that people do not invest in the wedding, but they invest in the relationship. If you are getting married, if your child is getting married, if you're the mother, father, other of the bride, please encourage them to take 10 percent of that damn wedding budget and, you know, skip the flowers, skip one cake or something like that, and take 10 percent of that wedding budget to invest in the relationship instead. Whether that is an online course together, couples counselling, or simply spending time together that isn't focused on planning the wedding. Plan the relationship instead.

DR. DI GIULIO

Right. I love that. I love that. Invest in the relationship, not in the party. Doctor Jess, this has been incredible. You are incredible. I really encourage our listeners to check out your website, your podcast. Where can people find you, Dr. Jess?

DR. JESS

Oh, you can find me @sexwithdrjess on all social media, and the Sex With Dr. Jess podcast where we talk about everything from the racy topics to emotional literacy.

DR. DI GIULIO

Amazing. And for those of you who haven't checked out Dr. Jess's latest book—I mean all her books are amazing, but her latest one, The Ultimate Guide to Seduction and Foreplay, it's incredible. I recommend you check it out. Read it. So many practical tips as Jess alluded to earlier. Fantastic read. So thank you for that.

DR. JESS

Thank you. Thanks for having me. Great chatting with you.

DR. DI GIULIO

It's been so much fun. I hope to see you soon.

DR. JESS

Yes, let's do it.

DR. DI GIULIO

Okay, take care. Thank you, Jess.

CHRIS

That's it for this episode of Eat Move Think. We'll post show notes on the website at Eatmovethinkpodcast.com, including links to Jessica O'Reilly's new book, The Ultimate Guide to Seduction and Foreplay. Find Jess on Instagram and other social media @sexwithdrjess, and check out the Sex With Dr. Jess podcast. Eat Move Think is produced by Ghost Bureau. Senior Producer is Russell Gragg. Remember to rate and subscribe to Eat Move Think on your favourite podcast platform. Follow Shaun on Twitter and Instagram @ShaunCFrancis—that's Shawn with a 'U'—and Medcan @MedcanLiveWell. We'll be back soon with a new episode examining the latest in health and wellness.

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